Credibility, Lemons

[Jim Beidle <beidlej@yahoo.com>]

First off, thanks to all the cooler heads! I
appreciate the discussion as I make up my own mind
concerning these latest terrorist attacks. With Jim,
Howard, Bob and others who have served in the military
I'm ready. I don't know if they'll want a retreaded
old MP but if they do, my bags are packed and I can
report to Fort Lewis in a couple of hours. Likewise,
I'm content to wait and make sure of our target before
we go after it. It is far to early to conclusivly
point reach out and "touch" the enemy.

Other folks on this list, whom I suspect have never
seen the results of a grenade or heavy machine-gun
close up, seem ready to declare all out war on the
entire Middle East. I read Hope's articles before she
provided the web address, and I thought, "This sounds
just like the BS the John Burch Society and the KKK
put out to support their supremist positions." I was
close. Gamla, according to their web site, is
obviously one of the extremist groups in Israel that
thrive on Anti-Palestinian, Anti-Arab sentiment. The
"articles" and "white papers" on their web site
definitely fall into the category of propaganda,
skewed to support their particular viewpoint of
promoting Zionism by destroying Arabs and Muslims. It
is extremist and hard-liners such as these that have
helped to derail the peace process--the same genes if
a different camp, in my opinion, as the criminals who
perpretrated the horror of New York. It was just such
an ultra-nationalist criminal who assassinated Yitzak
Rabin in 1995.

No, thank you, Hope. I'll take my news from more
credible, less biased sources. Theree's more than
enough calls to action based on hatred to go around,
but I'll pass on that.

Jim Beidle

> ATTACHMENT part 6 message/rfc822 
> Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 13:03:38 -0700
> From: "hope lundquist" <wwho20@hotmail.com>
> To: cmksagehil@aol.com
> CC: jbass@beattynv.com, maryanne@ratbusters.net
> Subject: RC:  Fwd: RC: Re: Terrorism
> 
> To Heidi & Marryanne:
> Osama bin Laden hunted by the U.S. Why not the Arab
> Nations also hunting who 
> could very well get the job done pronto IF they
> wanted to. They don't want 
> to. They don't offer any help to us either. Wake up.
> Unless they do 
> something to weed out their own lord help them too.
> Interesting video on 
> www.gamla.org.il/english/feature/cel.htm
> showing Yasser Arafat celebrating our disaster with
> others including 
> children. The hypocrite then sends a video over here
> showing him giving 
> blood for us. He is the biggest liar on the planet!
> 
> Bye Hope Lundquist
> >From: CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com To: , , Subject: RC: Re:
> Terrorism Date: Thu, 13 
> >Sep 2001 14:21:37 EDT
> >
> >In a message dated Thu, 13 Sep 2001 1:33:02 PM
> Eastern Daylight Time, "John 
> >Bass" writes:
> >
> > > Osama bin Laden has been actively hunted by the
> U.S. since the
> ------------------
> Embassy
> > > bombings in Kenya & Tanzania where 224 lives
> were lost including 12 > 
> >Americans. There is an indictment for his arrest
> along with 16 others, 4 > 
> >have been convicted in a nine week trial, not a
> kangaroo court, in which it 
> > > took 12 days for the jury to decide their guilt.
> > Evidence shows that 
> >Osama bin Laden was also directly involved in the
> ship > bombing in Yemen 
> >where 17 U.S soldiers were killed. > What does it
> take Lif? You may want to 
> >give bin Laden the benefit of the > doubt, I don't.
> > This madman has to be 
> >stopped, he has a couple hundred million dollars
> that > he is willing to 
> >spend to bring down Western Civilization.
> >
> >John, I have to agree with you that there is plenty
> of evidence in other 
> >incidents to convict Osama bin Laden and many of
> his close associates, if 
> >we can just get hands on them. And my money is on
> him as being involved in 
> >this attack as well, but the evidence-gathering
> process is still underway. 
> >(And if this can, indeed, be laid at his feet, I
> hope this raises the 
> >awareness of the American people about who he is
> and what he is about, so 
> >that they WILL be more willing to support our
> government in going after 
> >him!) This IS the sort of direction that we need to
> take in this case, 
> >though--rather than going after his country of
> birth, people who share his 
> >racial origins, etc.
> >
> >Heidi (who can also remember Arab people dancing in
> the streets when they 
> >were liberated by US troops from occupation by
> Saddam's forces--NOT all 
> >Arab people can be summed up in one "hate-America"
> political philosophy!)
> >
> >
>
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> 
> >Ridecamp is a service of Endurance Net,
> http://www.endurance.net. 
> >Information, Policy, Disclaimer:
> http://www.endurance.net/RideCamp 
>
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> >
> 
>
_________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> 
> 
>
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> Ridecamp is a service of Endurance Net,
> http://www.endurance.net.    
> Information, Policy, Disclaimer:
> http://www.endurance.net/RideCamp   
>
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> 

> ATTACHMENT part 7 message/rfc822 
> Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 16:37:31 -0400
> From: "Ken Townsend"
> <townsend.buggies.sleighs@qc.aibn.com>
> To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
> Subject: RC:  Fw: OUR AMERICA-The Gordon Sinclair
> Editorial  (Long)
> 
> This was printed in l973, and is once again making
> its rounds across
> Canada.  Americans can be very Proud.  Thank You.
> > 
> > > From a Canadian editorial... 
> > > America: The Good Neighbor 
> > > 
> > > Widespread but only partial news coverage was
> given 
> > > recently to a remarkable editorial broadcast
> from 
> > > Toronto by Gordon Sinclair, a Canadian
> television 
> > > commentator. What follows is the full text of
> his 
> > > trenchant remarks as printed in the
> Congressional 
> > > Record: 
> > > 
> > > "This Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for
> the 
> > > Americans as the most generous and possibly the
> least 
> > > appreciated people on all the earth. 
> > > 
> > > Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain
> and 
> > > Italy were lifted out of the debris of war by
> the 
> > > Americans who poured in billions of dollars and 
> > > forgave other billions in debts. None of these 
> > > countries is today paying even the interest on
> its 
> > > remaining debts to the United States. 
> > > 
> > > When France was in danger of collapsing in 1956,
> it 
> > > was the Americans who propped it up, and their
> reward 
> > > was to be insulted and swindled on the streets
> of 
> > > Paris. I was there. I saw it. 
> > > 
> > > When earthquakes hit distant cities, it is the
> United 
> > > States that hurries in to help. This spring, 59 
> > > American communities were flattened by
> Tornadoes. 
> > > Nobody helped. 
> > > 
> > > The Marshall Plan and the Truman Policy pumped 
> > > billions of dollars into discouraged countries.
> Now 
> > > newspapers in those countries are writing about
> the 
> > > decadent, war- mongering Americans. 
> > > 
> > > I'd like to see just one of those countries that
> is 
> > > gloating over the erosion of the United States
> dollar 
> > > build its own airplane. Does any other country
> in the 
> > > world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo
> Jet, 
> > > the Lockheed Tri-Star, or the Douglas DC10? If
> so, why 
> > > don't they fly them? Why do all the
> International 
> > > lines except Russia fly American Planes? 
> > > 
> > > Why does no other land on earth even consider
> putting 
> > > a man or woman on the moon? You talk about
> Japanese 
> > > technocracy, and you get radios. You talk about
> German 
> > > technocracy, and you get automobiles. You talk
> about 
> > > American technocracy, and you find men on the
> moon - 
> > > not once, but several times - and safely home
> again. 
> > > 
> > > You talk about scandals, and the Americans put
> theirs 
> > > right in the store window for everybody to look
> at. 
> > > Even their draft-dodgers are not pursued and
> hounded. 
> > > They are here on our streets, and most of them, 
> > > unless they are breaking Canadian laws, are
> getting 
> > > American dollars from ma and pa at home to spend
> here. 
> > > 
> > > When the railways of France, Germany and India
> were 
> > > breaking down through age, it was the Americans
> who 
> > > rebuilt them. When the Pennsylvania Railroad and
> the 
> > > New York Central went broke, nobody loaned them
> an old 
> > > caboose. Both are still broke. 
> > > 
> > > I can name you 5000 times when the Americans
> raced to 
> > > the help of other people in trouble. Can you
> name me 
> > > even one time when someone else raced to the
> Americans 
> > > in trouble? I don't think there was outside help
> even 
> > > during the San Francisco earthquake. 
> > > 
> > > Our neighbors have faced it alone, and I'm one 
> > > Canadian who is damned tired of hearing them get
> 
> > > kicked around. They will come out of this thing
> with 
> > > their flag high. And when they do, they are
> entitled 
> > > to thumb their nose at The lands that are
> gloating 
> > > over their present troubles. I hope Canada is
> not one 
> > > of those." 
> > > 
> > > Stand proud, America!" 
> > > 
> > >
> 
> 
>
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> Ridecamp is a service of Endurance Net,
> http://www.endurance.net.    
> Information, Policy, Disclaimer:
> http://www.endurance.net/RideCamp   
>
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> 

> ATTACHMENT part 8 message/rfc822 
> Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 16:06:53 -0500
> From: RHightshoe@aaamissouri.com
> To: ridecamp@endurance.net
> Subject: RC:  A Civilized Response
> 
> ---
> Below is an op-ed column written by Leonard Pitts
> Jr, a columnist for the
> > > Miami Herald.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Published Wednesday, September 12, 2001
> 
>  Headline: We'll go forward from this moment
> > >
> > > It's my job to have something to say.
> > >
> > > They pay me to provide words that help make
> sense of that which
> troubles
> > > the American soul. But in this moment of airless
> shock when hot tears
> > > sting disbelieving eyes, the only thing I can
> find to say, the only
> words
> > > that seem to fit, must be addressed to the
> unknown author of this
> > > suffering.
> > >
> > > You monster. You beast. You unspeakable bastard.
> > >
> > > What lesson did you hope to teach us by your
> coward's attack on our
> World
> > > Trade Center, our Pentagon, us? What was it you
> hoped we would learn?
> > > Whatever it was, please know that you failed.
> > >
> > > Did you want us to respect your cause? You just
> damned your cause.
> > >
> > > Did you want to make us fear? You just steeled
> our resolve.
> > >
> > > Did you want to tear us apart? You just brought
> us together.
> > >
> > > Let me tell you about my people. We are a vast
> and quarrelsome family,
> a
> > > family rent by racial, social, political and
> class division, but a
> family
> > > nonetheless. We're frivolous, yes, capable of
> expending tremendous
> > > emotional energy on pop cultural minutiae -- a
> singer's revealing
> dress, a
> > > ball team's misfortune, a cartoon mouse. We're
> wealthy, too, spoiled by
> > > the ready availability of trinkets and material
> goods, and maybe
> because
> > > of that, we walk through life with a certain
> sense of blithe
> entitlement.
> > > We are fundamentally decent, though --
> peace-loving and compassionate.
> We
> > > struggle to know the right thing and to do it.
> And we are, the
> > > overwhelming majority of us, people of faith,
> believers in a just and
> > > loving God.
> > >
> > > Some people -- you, perhaps -- think that any or
> all of this makes us
> > > weak.
> > > You're mistaken. We are not weak. Indeed, we are
> strong in ways that
> > > cannot be measured by arsenals.
> > >
> > >
> > > IN PAIN
> > >
> > > Yes, we're in pain now. We are in mourning and
> we are in shock. We're
> > > still grappling with the unreality of the awful
> thing you did, still
> > > working to make ourselves understand that this
> isn't a special effect
> from
> > > some Hollywood blockbuster, isn't the plot
> development from a Tom
> Clancy
> > > novel. Both in terms of the awful scope of their
> ambition and the
> probable
> > > final death toll, your attacks are likely to go
> down as the worst acts
> of
> > > terrorism in the history of the United States
> and, probably, the
> history
> > > of the world. You've bloodied us as we have
> never been bloodied before.
> > >
> > > But there's a gulf of difference between making
> us bloody and making us
> > > fall. This is the lesson Japan was taught to its
> bitter sorrow the last
> > > time anyone hit us this hard, the last time
> anyone brought us such
> abrupt
> > > and monumental pain. When roused, we are
> righteous in our outrage,
> > > terrible in our force. When provoked by this
> level of barbarism, we
> will
> > > bear any suffering, pay any cost, go to any
> length, in the pursuit of
> > > justice.
> > >
> > > I tell you this without fear of contradiction. I
> know my people, as
> you, I
> > > think, do not. What I know reassures me. It also
> causes me to tremble
> with
> > > dread of the future.
> > >
> > > In the days to come, there will be recrimination
> and accusation,
> fingers
> > > pointing to determine whose failure allowed this
> to happen and what can
> be
> > > done to prevent it from happening again. There
> will be heightened
> > > security, misguided talk of revoking basic
> freedoms. We'll go forward
> from
> > > this moment sobered, chastened, sad. But
> determined, too. Unimaginably
> > > determined.
> > >
> > >
> > > THE STEEL IN US
> > >
> > > You see, the steel in us is not always readily
> apparent. That aspect of
> > > our character is seldom understood by people who
> don't know us well. On
> > > this day, the family's bickering is put on hold.
> > >
> > > As Americans we will weep, as Americans we will
> mourn, and as
> Americans,
> > > we will rise in defense of all that we cherish.
> > >
> > > So I ask again: What was it you hoped to teach
> us? It occurs to me that
> > > maybe you just wanted us to know the depths of
> your hatred. If that's
> the
> > > case, consider the message received. And take
> this message in exchange:
> > > You don't know my people. You don't know what
> we're capable of. You
> don't
> > > know what you just started.
> > >
> > > But you're about to learn.
> > >
> 
> 
> 
>
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> Ridecamp is a service of Endurance Net,
> http://www.endurance.net.    
> Information, Policy, Disclaimer:
> http://www.endurance.net/RideCamp   
>
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> 


__________________________________________________
Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help?
Donate cash, emergency relief information
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/