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Re: RC: barefoot - long



Toni,
Many people who have been doing endurance for a long time raise their own 
horses, keep their horses out 24/7, trim properly (if/when necessary) and 
don't shoe until they require it. So, if you live in a part of the country 
where horses can be ridden unshod, great. Take advantage of it.
If people who live & train in a particular area say their horses have good 
feet, yet they wear off faster than they grow, you might try to believe 
them. If you go there to an endurance ride, & they recommend hoof 
protection, you might try to believe them. Why is it considered "flaming" 
when maybe it just pains us to see people trying something where it's so 
unlikely to succeed? Trust me, we don't "slap iron on" because it's fun or 
easy. Until someone invents a better alternative, it's the best we can do. 
Barefoot doesn't work here, boots only work on some horses.

Nancy Mitts
In the Rocky Ozarks



>From: Toni Jones <tjones@coinet.com>
>To: ridecamp@endurance.net
>Subject: RC:  barefoot - long
>Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2001 14:05:40 -0700
>
>This is long, possibly boring and most likely, controversial.... I just
>wanted to pose a few questions I've been thinking about and let people
>think for themselves....
>
>Why is it that endurance riders have no problems with the theories
>behind Long Slow Distance? We are told, and generally accept, that it
>takes 2 to 3 years to build our horses up physically in order to race at
>these rides. We start slowly, training, being careful not to do too much
>too soon so as not to risk injury. The horse needs this 2 or 3 years to
>build the tendons, ligaments, muscles and bone. Continuously being
>stressed ever so slightly, time to repair and then come back again to
>stress the
>systems some more. Little by little, the horse's various systems improve
>and you can notice the results. The hill he use to have to stop two or
>three times on to get his air back he can now trot up. Other results is
>that he can trot or canter longer and seems to enjoy doing it.
>
>Very few people in endurance would disagree with the above theories,
>ideas or whatever you want to call them. But why is it that when someone
>thinks they can do the same thing with the horses feet.... well, that,
>they are told, is simply not possible. Why is it that we can and do feel
>it's the responsible thing to do to condition all the horses' other
>systems, but just slap a set of iron shoes on the horse with the idea
>that they just can't make the trip with their original equipment? Why do
>we expect all other "original equipment" (bone, tendons, etc.) to adapt
>to our conditioning regimen to fulfill our wishes, but not their
>feet????
>
>Why aren't people conditioning the hooves along with the bone and
>tendons and ligaments?
>
>Why does there seem to be a problem with comparing the feral horses on
>our rangelands with our domestic horses? Few would disagree that the
>feral horses have absolutely amazing feet. I've seen some in person
>through the years. I remember seeing a mustang fresh off the range that
>my friend acquired through the Adopt-A-Horse program years ago and
>marveling at those uniformly
>shaped hooves. I could hardly believe that horse could have feet like
>that and had never worn shoes.
>
>Do most people REALLY know what an adult feral horse's feet look like
>RIGHT off the range? A horse that has never had a human touch him in his
>life? I will admit that the overall physical condition of some of these
>horses can make some of us cringe. Some are thin, obviously wormy, and
>can be scraggly looking, which some say is from inadequate nutrition....
>but despite these things did you notice their feet? Did you notice the
>LOW heels, the passive frog, the scoops at the quarters, the concavity,
>the rounded short toes and edges?? No place for rocks to get stuck,
>excellent traction on any surface the horse might find himself on.
>Whether the horse is big or little, large boned or small, their feet are
>very similar to each others with all the above characteristics. I have
>noticed these things on my own through the years without knowing what I
>was seeing so I  was pleased to discover that Jaime Jackson had studied
>this in depth and wrote a book about it.
>
>These horses aren't getting biotin supplement, or vitamins or minerals
>provided to them by humans. So why are their feet so vastly superior to
>our domestic horse's feet? Are these feral horses genetically superior?
>It does not seem so since once the mustangs are kept, as our domestic
>horses are (stalls, small paddocks etc.), they all seem to end up with
>the same  problems. Long toes, high heels, chipping, thrush, and the
>like usually resulting from poor/sporadic hoof care.
>
>The argument is that the feral horses are only going a few miles a day,
>10 to 20, and at a slow pace at that, with no rider, so there is little
>hoof wear compared to the distances our endurance horses go. So, let's
>see, at 10 miles a day, that's 70 miles a week, or possibly more...
>
>Why are the feral horses going 10 to 20 miles every day? Is it all they
>CAN go? Obviously, to me, is that this is all they NEED to go. In these
>distances they manage to get all the food and water they need, so why go
>farther or faster? Their hooves do just fine at these distances day in
>and out, week after week, because this is what they are conditioned to
>do. Push them out of their element, or what they are conditioned to do
>i.e. all of a sudden, and you will end up with lameness or other issues.
>Much like our endurance horses, push the young or inexperienced horse
>too much in distance or speed, and you will end up with lameness or
>other issues, also, even with shoes.
>
>So what would happen if we take our herd of feral horses, and we were
>able to "manage" them and get a couple more miles out of them daily or
>almost daily for a period of time? Would their feet fall apart because
>10 to 20 miles is their genetic capacity or potential and 2 more miles
>added on would be their undoing? Probably not. They would adapt. And
>then after they were covering the 2 more miles regularly with ease, we
>could continue to manage them further and add another 2 or so miles to
>their daily distance. Again, they would adapt. At least to me, it would
>follow that using the same logic and training/conditioning we use on our
>endurance horses to gain stronger bone, tendons and ligaments, would
>also apply to our "managed" herd of feral horses, feet and all. Perhaps,
>during this managing, we could also add a bit of faster work to their
>daily "workout". Just a little to start, then a bit more, etc. Would
>they handle that OK? Or have they  reached their genetic capacity yet?
>Probably not. And let's say, for the sake of this theory, that we could
>actually get some riders on a few of them. Just a couple miles to start,
>go slow, easy, and give their hooves time to adapt. The horses would
>still be in their "natural" environment and covering their territory.
>
>Obviously, this isn't going to happen in the real world, we'd all get
>bucked off! But, why can't a domestic horse's hooves be expected to
>adapt in the same way? We've already decided (at least I have) that the
>feral horses are NOT genetically superior to our domestic horses. Our
>domestic horses have better nutrition, supplements, etc. and care. Why
>is it just not accepted that a managed barefoot horse, following natural
>trim principles that work for that individual horse, can't also have his
>feet conditioned, over a period of time, in the way our feral horses
>are. Why are we willing to take 2 to 3 years to condition all of the
>horse except his hooves? The horse's system, regardless of discipline,
>seems to adapt to the task at hand if introduced in a slow, incremental
>way, riding or driving.
>
>If I take my horse and ride him only on sandy trails with few hills and
>very few rocks, and then on one long ride with lots of rocks, hard
>ground and lots of hills. I'm going to probably have one tired, sore,
>ouchy footed grumpy horse who is going to be layed off for some
>recuperation time. And this would be with or without shoes. He's not use
>to it. If I take my busy horse that has been in a hard packed paddock
>for weeks and then I put him in a rocky paddock,  yes, he will wear his
>feet down in no time and he will be sore. And he was. He wasn't as
>active for awhile, stood still for a day or so, but he was back out
>there again and this time he was trotting and cantering on the rocks. If
>we take the well conditioned shod ranch horse with rider and then go out
>and chase the feral horses to round them up it's obvious that the ranch
>horse should "win" this round. The feral horses aren't conditioned to
>the speed of the chase for that day. They ARE conditioned for their
>allotted 10 to 20 miles a day, taking ALL day to do it, just moseying
>along and eating and doing whatever they normally do. They are NOT
>conditioned to go on a 3 or 4 mile or whatever speed race with panic as
>the motivator, so, naturally they will "lose". But if you were able to
>go chase them, i.e. condition them, on a regular, incremental basis,
>well, I think the stakes would be turned in time.
>
>Perhaps this is too simplistic. And I do realize that not all horse
>hooves are created equal, especially when it comes to endurance. But why
>are people who are interested and willing to take the time to condition
>the WHOLE horse ridiculed for this? The Natural Horse Care movement
>doesn't mean we all move into caves and eat raw meat for dinner. It
>simply means trying to emulate in your horse's home environment
>something similar to what the wild horses have, rather than being cooped
>up in little stalls day in and out with little or no activity. You try
>to emulate how the wild horses eat, i.e. on the ground, or in a feeder
>low to the ground, letting them get their feet wet almost daily by
>overflowing their water trough, room to roam and various terrain to roam
>over. Provide some rocks if you expect them to carry you over rocks.
>
>Some people are willing to take a "time out" of their riding and
>endurance agendas and are trying to provide what they feel is a better
>environment for their horses. In return they are being rewarded with
>happier horses, better movement, and overall healthier critters than
>before. They see with their eyes and feel it when they ride, you will
>not convince them otherwise. They now know more about their horse than
>they did before, and this is one of the hallmarks of endurance... KNOW
>your horse!
>
>Undertaking the conditioning process of your horse going barefoot is not
>easy. It's far easier to just call the farrier and have him/her come out
>and slap those iron shoes on so you can forget about them for the next 6
>to 8 weeks, unless some issue arises and you must call him/her again.
>Traveling the barefoot road is not simple if you undertake it, learning
>to trim, learning what your horse's feet should look like, studying
>angles, checking on them almost daily, changing their home environment,
>seeing
>that they get adequate exercise, using hoof boots during the transition
>period if need be. So why, for all this work that some are going to for
>their horses, are they meeting up with so much ridicule from fellow
>endurance people and being dismissed as stupid or ignorant?
>
>Certainly there will always be the idiot that just pulls the shoes and
>races in their next ride, but we already have those riding horses WITH
>shoes. Why is it a big deal when a few "pioneers" attempt an LD or 50
>barefoot (or even with hoof boots) and end up pulling? Can't fellow
>riders just say, "hey, good try, better luck next time!" instead of
>being criticized for being "cruel" to their horse. I don't see anyone
>out there trying to stop the feral horses from covering 70+ miles a
>week, gasp! barefoot. It will take time for many to "get all the kinks"
>worked out and attempting to get the trims right for their horse,
>allowing for hoof mechanism, conditioning etc. Just like trying to get
>the right saddle or bit or stirrups. Careful trial and error.
>
>For some reason the name "Strasser" invokes a lot of opinions, good and
>bad. Few realize she is a lady vet in Germany who has spent the last 20
>years of her life helping "end of the road" lame horses that all would
>have given up on. I would think she understands a lot of the horse's
>hoof and how it works after all this time considering the thousands of
>horses she has helped back to soundness. There are also Americans on the
>Natural Horse Care and Trim movement that use to be farriers, and some
>still are, such as Jaime Jackson and Bergy. Their methods probably deal
>more with starting with a sound horse with no lameness issues.
>Regardless, some will have good ideas or "points" that will work well on
>a given horse, some will not. It's up to the owner to look at all the
>available information and make the decision for themselves and their
>horse, or find someone, farrier or otherwise, who can do it for them
>that will carry out their wishes. This is much like training or the
>infamous saddle searches.
>
>This long one sided discussion is not to try to "convert" people to the
>so called "barefoot movement".... it's just really to hopefully provide
>some questions to think about. As a side note, the so called "Natural
>Trim Movement" actually is nothing new. We are just relearning it yet
>again in the vastness of time. I was showing my dad (age 75) some photos
>of the hooves in Jaime Jackson's books about the mustang study he did
>and my dad said, "oh yes, that is how our horses feet looked in
>Oklahoma. Nobody's horses wore shoes there (where he lived), we couldn't
>afford them and there wasn't a blacksmith for over a 100 miles anyway,
>so we just used a rasp to smooth them off, round the toe and touch them
>up now and again and thought nothing of it." These were riding horses,
>driving horses and mules and also used for plowing, during the 1930's.
>And his grandparents and friends did much the same thing.
>
>Someone will probably zero in on one phrase from above and shoot it to
>smithereens, thereby supposedly justifying their position and nullifying
>the entire barefoot movement. This is just my 50 cents worth.... :) I'm
>not  an expert or can say I've done anything with it, i.e. ridden any
>rides barefoot or with boots.... yet. The ideas put forth I find
>interesting and just thought I'd share them. So by shooting down these
>ideas, you are just flaming me and nothing else. Have fun with your
>target practice! And have a happy 4th!
>
>Toni Jones
>Central Oregon
>
>
>
>
>
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