Re: Stallion Behavior (Long)

[Jim Holland <lanconn@tds.net>]

Tracey...

You can't teach this at the rides.  It's somwhat difficult to explain. 
(Wish I could show you) You have to have done this long before.  I had
ALL those problems with Sunny.  Although a very mellow horse normally,
he IS very competitive and reasonably assertive around other horses, but
not mean. I believe that during the two years or so of conditioning
required to endurance ride, you should spend as much time conditioning
the horse's mind as you do his body.  In order to prevent this behavior,
you and your horse must first be in total agreement that you are the
unequivocal herd leader and will rip the meat off his bones
(figuratively speaking, of course) if he looks crosseyed at you. When he
is misbehaving on the trail, he is ignoring your "herd leader" status. 

You need to recruit some of your friends and practice the stuff below on
a trail where you have plenty of room to maneuver.  I am assuming you
have taught your horse to turn on hind/fore, sidepass, back, etc. You
can just ask him to stand.  You must give him "work to do". 

First you set up the undesirable behavior, such as having another horse
trot by you. When his attention focuses off you and on the other horse,
immediately give him the "ainnnt" word and go into a rapid repertoire of
sidepassing, backing, turning, etc. In other words, work his butt off
for a couple of minutes until he is willing to stand quietly, then move
on down the trail. He will just HATE to do this!

Repeat this little drill until he will stand quietly and let the other
horse trot by, however long it takes.  You can fix the kicking problem
the same way, but be careful not to get your friend's horse kicked.  As
soon as the ears go back and his focus changes, do a turn and go into
the "repertoire".  You will be surprised how quickly he figures it out. 
This is serious enough to precede the "repertoire" with a riding crop
smack. The more aggressive the horse, the longer all this will take.

You can use also use this to teach your horse to stand and allow another
horse to "leave him" on the trail.  It's all based on the principle that
you have taught your horse how to do the moves and that you are a STRONG
herd leader.  You must have his respect.

I don't know of any way to keep Toc from running back and forth between
two haybags when you are not there or kicking/biting other horses when
not in your presence. But he should not do it when YOU are standing
there. Chase him off and make him stand out there with nothing. He'll
get the message. He can be herd leader when you aren't there if he wants
to.     

This past weekend, I purchased a young (4) Arab. (I guess I felt sorry
for him more than anything else)  He's mellow, and real
friendly...skinny with great big ears. Anyway,  after several days to
get accustomed to the stall and surroundings and some round pen work to
teach him to come to me and acknowledge me as herd leader, I turned him
out for the first time with Sunny. Later I went out with carrots and
when they both came over, Sunny laid his ears back at Magic.  I
IMMEDIATELY chased him off and made him stand out at a distance from us
while Magic ate a carrot.  I then "asked" him with the "come to me"
command to come over and have a carrot, which he did politely with his
hat in his hand, ears forward, head down. He did not LIKE not being part
of MY "herd"....and he KNEW better from previous altercations like this.

I prefer horses with good dispositons for Endurance.....easier to
teach..and I would worry about the danger to my friends and their horses
at a ride. Sounds like Toc's attitude is not the best for Endurance
because of the large opportunity for inadvertent "close encounters". 
You CAN teach him to behave when you are there except possibly in some
extreme cases when he feels "attacked". (Like at Malibu) Good luck with
him.  Be careful out there, he can hurt you also when he's taking out
his aggression on other horses and not paying attention.

Jim and Sun of Dimanche  

Tracey wrote:
> 
> Jim wrote:
> 
> >When would you get a "nose to nose" encounter other than in a water trough
> or creek?  Hopefully everyone is going the same way! :)<
> 
> My understanding of a nose-to-nose encounter is when two horses are doing
> exactly that : standing nose-to-nose.  Unlike Sandy, my experience is that
> this is exactly what strange horses do when they meet for the first time,
> stand nose-to-nose, necks arched, blowing softly.  You'll get the odd squeal
> and foot stamped, but that's it, provided the horse isn't aggressive.
> 
> It may be that this is not usual for horses kept in more natural
> surroundings, but the horses I have dealt with are mainly OTT TBs who are
> stabled at night and kept in paddocks, usually singly, during the day.
> Maybe they just don't know better.....
> 
> >What I meant was I expect my horse to stand or slow down and let another
> horse trot by without kicking, biting, or any other form of aggression.<
> 
> God, wouldn't that be great.  I have one who will do that.  I have another
> who would rather kill than have a horse go past him.  So far, all I've
> managed to convince him to do is to keep his protests to a simple ears back
> / tail swishing / neck twisting  kinda swearing thing.  He *really* wants to
> kick and bite, but knows it's unacceptable.  Any ideas how I can get him to
> accept that this is a normal part of riding routine?  Warm-up arenas are a
> nightmare, and I'm dreading our first trail ride, for this reason.  I've
> tried boxing him in, having horses overtake him.  He even played PC for a
> bit (which usually cures them of this) but he's still convinced he's cock of
> the hoop on trail.  I took him on a trail ride two weeks ago with a friend's
> stallion, and blow me down if he didn't try to bite the stallion when it was
> next to him.
> 
> >I expect him to allow another horse that he has never seen to trot right on
> his butt without kicking. I would prefer a respectable distance, but
> somtimes that isn't possible in the excitement of a start on a crowded
> trail.
> 
> I generally don't have to worry about achieving a respectable distance.
> Most people only trot on Toc's butt once <eg>  The red ribbon is there, if
> they ignore it, that's there indaba.
> 
> >I expect him to stand quietly and drink at a creek or water trough in a
> group without biting or annoying other horses.>
> 
> Again, how do you *teach* this.  I got home yesterday to find that Toc had
> spent the entire afternoon running btw the two hay nets to prevent PG (on
> the other side of the paddock fence, to save his hide) from having any.
> 
> I'm not being facetious in asking for assistance, but I've started to think
> I have a losing battle on my hands here.  When I'm on him, all I have to do
> is growl at him and he's okay, but I really worry about when I'm not around.
> He's booted a couple of horses whilst he's been standing at the trailer at
> shows (okay, so they ignored the red ribbon and came too close, but PG
> doesn't behave like that!)
> 
> I'm off to a XC show this Saturday.  Mark is apparently taking bets as to
> how many ponies Toc "takes out" in the warm-up arena.  This is *not* the
> rep. I want this horse to have!  I've also organised a trail ride with eight
> friends in August : there will probably be two stallions, a couple of mares,
> some geldings and The Monster.  I'm already afraid....very afraid.....maybe
> I need to top up my PL insurance.
> 
> Tracey

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