RE: RE: MALIBU RIDE AND TRAIL INCIDENT

["Corbelletta, Antonio" <Antonio_Corbelletta@affymetrix.com>]

Bob,
These are all excellent comments and suggestions.  I have to agree that peer
pressure is much more effective than rules.  
Speaking to the person one on one can be uncomfortable but we need to
educate some riders that may not know any better.  If that did not work,
then maybe ride management needs to hear about it. 
I am scarred to death that poor behavior out there will cause us to loose
rides.
Thanks for your suggestions.
Tony Corbelletta

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Morris [mailto:bobmorris@rmci.net]
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2001 10:21 AM
To: Corbelletta, Antonio; ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: RE: RE: MALIBU RIDE AND TRAIL INCIDENT


Let us examine this alleged incident in depth.

First consider that one persons type of abusive conduct is another persons
normal every day methodology. Perception is very important. There is the
possibility that the alleged offender was not aware that they were
offending.

Next consider that the normal route of complaint is initially through the
Ride Manager. Was the ride manager alerted as to the incident? After all the
observer in this case had no problem identifying the alleged offender so
there should be no excuse as to not speak to the RM. And the RM is the
ultimate responsible party in the case of a complaint as far as the agencies
would be concerned. It would be only courtesy on the part of the complainer
to make the issue known to the RM prior to voicing it on Ride Camp.

Thirdly, has the complainer spoken, in a pleasant manner, to the alleged
offender? To do so would again be a courtesy prior to voicing the complaint
nation wide. Peer pressure can do many things that rules never accomplish.

Last bit of wisdom, consider the fact that something you do in competition
may, some day, reflect on you. Would you rather see it on ride camp or hear
it in private from one of your fellow riders?

Bob Morris

-----Original Message-----
From: Corbelletta, Antonio [mailto:Antonio_Corbelletta@affymetrix.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2001 10:49 AM
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: RC: RE: MALIBU RIDE AND TRAIL INCIDENT


I have a question for the more learned AERC members:  Should this person be
turned into the Ride Management for unsportsman like conduct?  I think that
the rules say something about that.
This kind of behavior is what is going to get us less and less rides.  Also,
it is going to bring us more to the attention of the anmimal rights folks!
Especially if after this kind of behavior one of the horses gets sick!  You
all know what I mean.
There are lots of people out there who want to get rid of horse everywhere.
Yes, not all people like horses and I have been told by folks that they
think that horses are very bad for the environment.  Nutty yes, but the more
material they get the worse it is for us.
Frankly, I would not be very happy to be run off the trail by some body on a
horse or anything for that matter.  I think that the person that got run
over showed remarkable restraint.  Something that I would not have shown.  I
would have followed this nut case on my bike, yes I could keep up, let her
know exactly how I feel.
But, what should the rest of us 99.9% of riders do when we see this type of
behavior?  Any ideas?
Tony C

-----Original Message-----
From: guest@endurance.net [mailto:guest@endurance.net]
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2001 11:38 PM
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: RC: MALIBU RIDE AND TRAIL INCIDENT


Debbie Ekhaml dekarab@home.com
Hi Everybody,  Well summer is here in So. Ca and the
Malibu Ride was warm!  This was a very tough ride and
those that completed should be proud.  Thanks to Karen
Zontelli for putting on the ride.  Nice prizes and the food
was devoured.
   A couple of unfortunate things happened that I want to
mention because it reflects directly on us as riders and our
sport.
    One of those things was ribbons being moved by parties unknown.  Most
likely not riders and Karen did her best to
check the trail just ahead of the ride, but these things happen.
Most everyone mentioned it, but it seemed most took it in stride
which was great.
    The other occurred on the LD ride.  My first observation was
an individual who took off at a dead gallop as soon as the controlled
start was over.  I know some horses have to go (I have one myself)but this
was ridiculous.  This person continued this for 3-4 miles, then waited on
the side of the trail for
his/her friends which were also slow galloping.  This group was lead by a
"sponser" being paid to get juniors through the ride.
The problem I had with this was the complete lack of trail etiquette
displayed by the sponser.  She actually kicked at my friends horse to move
it over as she went barreling past with her 3 juniors in tow.  She went on
to run a lady mountain biker
(about 50 years of age) off a section of singletrack causing the biker to
fall when her horse bumped the bike as the lady was trying to get off the
trail.  The rider was too impatient to wait.  I observed this as I was in
line right behind this group.
  I asked the woman if she was ok (she was holding her arm) and she
assurred me she was.  Later, this group took a wrong turn
 and did a short extra loop.  As I was riding toward the photographer,
they came up behind me and I heard the sponser say
"oh great, now we're in last place.  I yelled over my shoulder that they
were not and I would let them by ASAP.  We were on a downhill, rocky
singletrack, and when I was able to let them by, they again GALLOPED past.
I informed the last junior that this was NOT a race and it fell on deaf
ears.  They were obviously determined on making up time.  At VC 1, one of
the juniors was pulled for lameness.  The rest went on to finish (I will
not say where as it was LD and doesn't matter).  At the pre-ride meeting,
Karen SPECIFICALLY asked everyone to respect the other trail users as we
were in a state park and could lose the ride if people complained.  I
don't want to start a debate on LD, but I have a real problem with a
"Sponser" teaching our next generation of riders that this sort of
behavior is acceptable.
I was totally disgusted with the treatment of thier mounts by
riding this way.  This was a tough, technical trail.  It was
bad enough how their fellow riders were treated, but what about the public
who was exposed to their bad behavior and now may
well have a negative feeling about our sport?  I hope these
individuals involved take a long hard look at their behavior
and CHANGE IT IMMEDIATELY.  I go to rides to have fun, however
I am a competitive rider.  One can be competitive without being
inconsiderate.  Thanks Karen again for having the ride so I
could have a getaway weekend!  Debbie and Razal


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=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Ridecamp is a service of Endurance Net, http://www.endurance.net.
Information, Policy, Disclaimer: http://www.endurance.net/RideCamp
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=