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Fw: "Let's Get It On!"



Becky, I sent this morning, but it hasn't come thru on ridecamp.  Can you
please forward for me?  Thanks, Cliff

----- Original Message ----- From: <GrandPaws@cs.com
>Subject: Re: "Let's get it on!"

> I have recently looked at the RC archives and have some interest in
solving
> a mystery. I think it would be interesting and to everyone's advantage to
> bring this topic to a `known` conclusion. Since I am able, I will play the
> devil's advocate and take up ti's bet. This will help facilitate a
> conclusion one way or 'tother. I do not personally know either ti, Bill or
> Heidi, have no agenda or business interests, other than the curiosity to
> find the truth.
> If Bill is correct, and his detailed records seem to bear that out, he can
> certainly use the cash for medical expenses. If his detractors are
correct,
> that his horse has not done these great performances in competition with
the
> use of supplements, then new riders should not be hoodwinked into thinking
> so.
>
> So.......
>
> BET's ON!!!!
>
> We need to clarify a few of the terms, which will provide "adequate
proof".
>
> I'm sure that I have not read all the posts on this topic, but I noted
there
> were at least three event dates mentioned, March 10, April 21, and May 5,
> 2001. Just in case of misplacement or loss of vet cards from one date,
let's
> simplify it for Bill and ask for the names of the vets who worked two of
> these rides, so that the actual persons can be identified and contacted
for
> verification.
>
> Additionally, it should not be too difficult to provide the date,
location,
> event manager or secretary and ride results of 2 out of three events with
> names, addresses, phone #s of the persons who managed these events and one
> person who worked or competed in each of the 2 events. That should keep
Bill
> from having to run down too much information if any of the events are
> outside his stomping ground of East Texas.
>
> Essentially, this will be providing location of 2 events and identity of 6
> people who can verify Bill's / Smokey's performance --- 3 people at two
> different events (veterinarian, manager and ride secretary or competitor.)
I
> am sure a ride manager or secretary could provide a competitor list, since
> rules are very similar to AERC, and that way a random sampling or two of
> competitor accounts could be taken by Heidi. Every gossip/backbiter should
> be squelched with that kind of evidence, which would also prove that each
> event was not a single competitor ride.
>
> Let me now include ti's challenge in its entirety--copied from the
archives:
>
> > Heidi >> >> I'll try to keep it very simple, for you, Heidi. Since Bill
> has been posting > information on my list, perhaps a dozen fine people
from
> this list have > harassed him directly, or through others, essentially
> calling him a liar. > That is backbiting.
> >
> > I've advised Bill to provide no more information at all--he has the vet
>
> slips--so that the gossipers can stay real busy. He is badly hurt and need
>
> not respond to the busy bodies and retards who MUST know all the details
of
> > his life, and whose goal is simply to make him out a liar.
> >
> > Tell you what. I'll bet $1000 that what he says is true and I will
provide
> > adequate proof to anyone who will put up the cash. We'll let you hold
it.
> I > will provide you alone with the proof, on the condition that you
reveal
> it > only after we have a player or two. I will donate the winnings to
> Bill's > medical bills.
> >
> > Fair enough? Ante up and let's have at it.
> >
> > ti
> >
> > Tom Ivers, President
> > Equine Racing Systems, Inc.
> > <A HREF="http://www.equineracing.com/">ERS Home Page</A>
> >
>
> Since ti has stated, and I quote again from the archives "> Tell you what.
> I'll bet $1000 that what he says is true and I will provide > adequate
proof
> to anyone who will put up the cash. ", let's add verification of a
statement
> that Bill has made. The Texas DPS is going to be loathe to verify an
> accident record for the sake of an internet game, so let's take something
> that is a matter of public record: 250 acre farm ownership. Bill's realty
> transactions or ownership can be verified in the County Courthouse (county
> of his residence/farm) as a matter of Public Record. Additionally, the tax
> office can provide records without infringing upon anyone's privacy
rights.
> Once again, I quote Bill from the archives: "The test track is a 240acre
> pasture on our farm. trail is flat, with > numerous> curves and bends to
get
> the 14 miles. mileage was measured with an> ATV when> trail was first laid
> out."
>
> Even with the amount of rain we have had this spring in Texas, a 14 mile
> trail ridden last winter for as much as 240 miles per week would still be
a
> visible worn track on our East Texas soils. Where is the farm/trail?
>
> (this is in an exchange between ti and Bill in the
archives..........quoted
> here on `overtraining`: " > --- In horsesciencey..., OasisArab@a... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 2/17/01 1:40:02 AM Central Standard Time, > Tivers@a...
>
> writes:>>
> > > Note that this chapter was devoted to the study of endurance > >
> athletes--things > > are somewhat different with overtraining in speed
> athletes. Also > note that > > 3 > > hours a day of easy lope in a horse
> amounts to about 45 miles.
> > >
> > > Tom Ivers
> > >>
> > It would appear to me that "overtraining" is relative. Some athletes >
> will > have different ideas and reactions to overtraining. In our case, >
> during a 7 > day period we will log +/- 240 miles, some flat speed work,
> some > hill work,
> > etc. with 1 complete day off thrown in the middle ..."
>
> It would be interesting to see medical records of Bill's presumed surgery,
> but any verification of that would be infringing on Doctor/patient
> `privilege`, besides the fact that anyone can have surgery for joint
> problems without having the joints screwed up by a horse accident. SOOOoo,
> let's pick another verifiable statement and again I quote the archives
from
> Bill describing his first win: <snipped> "ride consisted of the following:
> loop #1 - 11.2 miles 30 min hold loop #2 - 14.5 miles 30 min hold loop
#3 -
> 13.1 miles 30 min hold loop #4 - 11.2 miles trail conditions - wet but not
> muddy water was abundant on trails. Trails where combination of fast flat
> areas, deeply wooded forest and several steep, long hills. All trails are
> permently marked with mile markers."
>
> OK---Where is the trail? Again, I quote, " All trails are permently marked
> with mile markers." Anyone should be able to see the mile markers. This
goes
> along with the first part of the verification, ie location of 2 of the 3
> rides mentioned on specific dates.
>
> And one last verifiable fact: the name and number of the lady, the career
> Limited distance rider, who was National Champion a few years back, who
> became disenchanted with AERC and founded another Club. Then once we have
> looked at her AERC Limited Distance Championship record, we can have her
> verify that her club put on the rides on the dates where Bill did so well
on
> his supplemented horse. She can disclose the name of the organization and
a
> contact person to verify not only its existence, but its officers, rules,
> and points or records keeping system. Again, quoted from Bill: " > > There
> is a small local club in far East Texas that puts on its on events.> It> >
> was started last year by people who became disenchanted with AERC due to>
> the> > treatment of the "commoners" by the some of the upper echelon in
> this> region> > of AERC. I found out about it from a friend of ours that
we
> where having> > breakfast with the weekend after the first event that I
did
> not get to> > attend. This lady is one of the founders of the club, she
was
> a career> Limit> > Distance rider who was milage champ a few years ago.
> Their events arerun> > under the same rules that AERC has in place with a
> few variations. " This person's name and number could make her one of the
6
> people who verify the existence of the 2 out of 3 events in which Bill and
> his horse performed so well.
>
> Let me say I congratulate Bill on these outstanding achievements and will
> gladly let ti donate his win money from me to Bill's medical expenses if
we
> see this "adequate proof." In the event that Bill has been enjoying some
fun
> on the internet and these things did not occur, I will gladly pocket my
> winnings, knowing that I have helped some novice endurance riders avoid
> misinformation. I might even donate some to a college student and to AERC
> International.
>
> As a known horse breeder and equine vet practitioner, Heidi can hold the
> money, and view the records and witness information. She can talk to
> witnesses if she is not satisfied with the printed documentation.
>
> To reiterate:
> Providing date and location of 2 events and identity of 6 people,
> specifically including ride management and ride vet, who can verify Bill's
/
> Smokey's performance --- 3 people at two different events.
>
> Courthouse/tax records of farm ownership & location so training trail
could
> be verified.
>
> Name and number of the Limited distance champion founder of the other club
> who put rides on the specified dates. She can be one of the 6 people
above.
> Name of the club and specifics regarding its organization. This would be
> assurance that the event was not a one rider activity.
>
> This sounds simple enough ti-----Like you said, "Let's get it on!"
>
> I have forwarded by wire my money to Heidi in a trust account----waiting
for
> ti's matching funds. I believe we need to confine this to some sort of
time
> frame for production of the wager money, for the production of the written
> documentation and production of any other evidence. Heidi needs a time for
> the investigation of event locations, witness accounts, and forwarding of
> any pertinent records.
>
> Let's say June 5 for the wiring of ti's funds, June 15 for postmark of
> written documentation forwarded to Heidi and courtesy copies should be
> provided to both bettors. July 4 seems appropriate for the conclusion to
be
> published on line with the awarding of funds to occur within the next 3
> business days.
>
> Agreeable ti? Put your money where your mouth is.
>
> Cliff Rutherford
>
>
>
>



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