Re: RC: strongid daily

[CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com]

In a message dated Wed, 18 Apr 2001 11:10:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time, "Libby O'Quinn" <masndixn@hotmail.com> writes:

<< I suppose all this is possible. Endurance does put a horse through alot more 
than usual. I suppose it could be possible that under certain conditions 
this could pose a problem. I have been told that the wormers not absorbed by 
the body so I don't see how it could cause these meltdowns that everybody is 
talking about. I must believe that there is more than meets the eye in these 
cases.>>

OK, please understand that there is NO difinitive research on this subject, so this is just speculation, but if I were going to propose a research project, here is where I'd look...

The colics that several of us have seen with the Strongid C horses are a very specific type of colic called anterior enteritis, where the small intestine kind of shuts down, and fluid refluxes back up into the stomach.  Untreated, the horse's stomach could actually rupture due to the pressure of the fluid.  These sorts of colics are VERY uncommon, and since most endurance horses are not on Strongid C, it has just seemed odd to some of us that most of the horses in which we've seen this really rare sort of colic have been on it.  While it is true that the Strongid C is not absorbed into the body, it IS entirely possible that it either changes gut flora in some way that predisposes the horse to this problem, or that it has some effect locally in the gut that alters the digestive process in some way.  A great many people report that horses on Strongid C get a sort of "bloom" and gain weight when on it, even if the horses were not infested with worms prior to going on it.  This fu!
rther suggests to me that it cau
ses some sort of local change in the gut itself that affects how nutrients are absorbed in some small way, in addition to killing worms.

This doesn't answer the question, but it helps to define the question that needs to be addressed...

Heidi


>From: "Truman Prevatt, PhD" <truman.prevatt@netsrq.com>
>Reply-To: truman.prevatt@netsrq.com
>To: "Libby O'Quinn" <masndixn@hotmail.com>
>CC: jkurtzhall@yahoo.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
>Subject: Re: RC:  strongid daily
>Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 19:18:13 -0400
>
>The issue I see with the daily wormier is that while it was tested and 
>approved,
>I sincerely doubt that it was tested where horses were put under the types 
>of
>metabolic stresses that endurance horses are put under. You can also bet 
>your
>bippy that the manufacturer is not all that concerned if there are problems 
>in a
>very small portion of the equine population. It's a big buck maker from 
>them and
>they do have stock holders to answer to who are only concered about the 
>bottom
>line.
>
>There have been enough smoking guns - the only management change was the 
>daily
>wormier - where a horse with no previous metabolic problems starts to get
>metabolic problems that I choose not to use it if I'm riding a lot.  I do 
>and
>have used it for periods of time, but not whild campaigning.
>
>My gut feeling is if experienced vets are swearing at it while others are
>swearing by it, there is still an open question with endurance horses.
>
>Truman
>
>Libby O'Quinn wrote:
>
> > I have my horses on Strongid daily. Through my vets office the makers of
> > strongid have a program that both my horses are enrolled in. I have to
> > purchase the wormer through my vet (documentation) but the makers will 
>pay
> > for any colic related problems under this program....including any 
>surgery.
> > I don't think a company would offer such a program if there was a real
> > problem from this daily wormer. Sounds to me like a good way to go out 
>of
> > business if there was any thing behind colic and strongid.
> >
> > >From: Jennifer Kurtzhall <jkurtzhall@yahoo.com>
> > >To: ridecamp@endurance.net
> > >Subject: RC:  strongid daily
> > >Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 13:09:38 -0700 (PDT)
> > >
> > >
> > >I've been reading the posts on ridecamp about the dangers of strongid 
>daily
> > >and it happens to coincide with our spring vet visit.  A friend of mine
> > >(many, many miles of endurance) was asking the vet about keeping weight 
>on
> > >her endurance horse who tends to be a bit harder keeper than the other
> > >three she owns. Among other things, the vet suggested  strongid daily, 
>this
> > >person will not use it because of the things she's heard about it. I 
>later
> > >asked the vet what he thought about the warnings we all hear about 
>strongid
> > >daily, his reply was simply, "the horse doesn't absorb the daily 
>wormer,
> > >that's why you give it every day." I am no scientist but that sounded 
>good
> > >to me. My horse has been on it for about five years, three of those 
>years
> > >he's been doing endurance. He's never had metabolic issues or 
>collicked,
> > >it's just a one rat study but I feel fine giving it so far.
> > >
> > >
> > >Jennifer
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >---------------------------------
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