ridecamp@endurance.net: RE: Ivers last comment on Carbos, etc

RE: Ivers last comment on Carbos, etc

Mike Sofen (miksof7@gte.net)
Fri, 5 Dec 1997 18:36:57 -0800

I don't need to defend Tom, he's quite capable of that himself. What I =
want to say is this: Tom's facts and intuitions are remarkable when =
properly applied, and that is the key. Many of the readers on this list =
are reacting rather than listening. =20

Listen - if you're a competitive rider and are looking for ways to =
enhance the physical performance of your horse, read between the lines =
of Tom's writings, and come up with the formulas specific to your horse. =
Listen - if you're not a competitive rider and yet still want to =
promote the highest health and wellbeing of your horse during arduous =
events, then read between the lines and find the truth that works for =

Like Susan, he's not handing out prescriptions for each horse, he's =
giving us some of the most advanced thinking in equine exercise =
physiology. Yes, his focus is sprinters, but this doesn't invalidate =
his message. It's still horses. Moving fast. In some cases, at the =
limits of safe exertion.

Mike Sofen
Seattle, WA

-----Original Message-----
From: Tivers@aol.com [SMTP:Tivers@aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 1997 3:24 PM
To: vanhove@unavco.ucar.edu; ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Ivers last comment on Carbos, etc

In a message dated 97-12-03 16:59:28 EST, vanhove@unavco.ucar.edu =

<< Tom,
I think you are completely missing the point. First, hardly anyone=20
is saying don't feed any grain during a ride. What they are saying is
don't feed ONLY grain. This is important because grain takes more =
to digest, and for a lot of other reasons already stated. It is =
for horses to eat a reasonable amount of hay before and during an =

I'm not against hay. I am against thinking that hay can substitute for
carbohyrate on the day of the event--which one person has suggested.
>>Articles I've read on glycogen loading for horses show a clear =
for shorter, higher intensity work such as a cross country event. For
endurance rides, there may be a benefit for the horses working faster; =
I would think you would agree that it is important to glycogen load
properly, with a glycogen loading product, rather than trying to =
this by feeding a lot of extra grain in the 3 or 4 days before an =

Well, it's two separate problems. You want as much glycogen stored away =
the muscle cells and liver as possible (glycogen loading) but you also =
incoming carbs at the beginning and throughout the ride. My suggestion =
be 1 lb of grain for each hour out from the start. For example if the =
is 9:00 AM and you feed at 7:00, then 2 lbs of grain would be a good =
At 3 hours out, 3 lbs of grain. 1 hour out, 1 lb of grain. And then =
maybe every two hours during the ride.

> I know you have recommended a specific product in some past posts.>

Actually, I had some samples from a manufacturer that I was giving away.
>High intensity aerobic exercise is still not an intensity where =
>energy systems are being used to any significant extent. In the =
>we're talking about heartrates in the 160 to 190 area. Still, though, =
>energy production has shifted to 100% carbohydrate--fast energy =
>all carbohydrate-based.
>I dont understand the last sentence here, but anyway most endurance =
I know, inluding folks who are riding to win, keep their horses heart =
lower than 160 except at the race to the finish. Again horses working
harder, for only an hour or 2, are the ones that can really benefit =
from glycogen loading, horses doing fast 50's probably can also =
but I bet the benefits are decreased for tougher, mountain rides where
all the horses are on the trail for at least 5 hours.>

This referred to the paragraph from the text I was quoting. If at 160 to =
heartrates the fuel source is 100% carbohydrates, then at lesser efforts =
still should be higher than the contribution from fats.
>One last point, Truman, Sarah, Wendy, Susan, et al are advising
people how to feed to minimize their horses chances of developing =
problems during endurance rides; I dont think any of them are claiming=20
that this way of feeding is designed to win track races.=20
It is really
usesless to be first into vet check # 1 or even first to the 45 mile =
if your horse is unable to complete. Endurance is special in that it =
an accomplishment just to finish. Seeking to maximize speed should come
only after a horse has demonstrated an ability to handle the job and =
care of itself by eating and drinking well at a ride. >

I'm not concerned about absolute speed in an endurance horse. My concern =
the early onset of fatigue--which is just as dangerous as any other
consideration. If fatigue can be avoided, then you'll also benefit from
increased performance. =20

>At that point I'm
sure your nutrition advice can help shave minutes off the ride time if
used in combination with good training; especially at flat, fast rides.

This is a good, thinking, post Teresa. Remember, though, that shaving =
time is
really something that has to be done throughout an endurance "race". If =
not a competition, then none of my stuff matters at all--everybody can =
with hay and joyfully stagger in whenever.


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