(Ramey--We took up endurance riding to get away from this stuff, remember?)
Joane
>
>ridecamp-d Digest Volume 96 : Issue 52
>
>Today's Topics:
> Re: Drug Policy Info (Long)
> Re: prev ad re 14 yo mare fs
> prev ad re 14 yo mare fs
> TEST MESSAGE
> RE: TEST MESSAGE
> Re: TEST MESSAGE
> Dynamite retailer?
> no mail
> [Jennifer_Henry@bc.sympatico.ca: Horses for sale - Endurance]
> [jessicat@napanet.net: Want AD]
> Mystery's mystery lameness continues...
> Re: Mystery's mystery lameness continues...
> winter shoeing options????
> endurance horse for sale
> Re: Mares returning to work after foaling
> move.
> RE: winter shoeing options????
> ridecamp administration
> Re: Mystery's mystery lameness continues...
> for fun
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 09:39:57 -0800
>From: "Duncan Fletcher" <dfletche@gte.net>
>To: "Endurance Net" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
>Subject: Re: Drug Policy Info (Long)
>Message-Id: <199612191740.LAA02940@mail.gte.net>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>First my apologies if this duplicates, but the first post seems to have
>bounced back.
>
>A possible solution to the drug (substance) question, but first some
>questions. What is the clearance time for rhino vaccine? What is an
>abnormal amount of biotin? Is a topical anti-biotic impermissible under
>"administration of abnormal substances"? How about one being fed or
>injected? What about a topical antisceptic?
>
>I raise these questions because the problem is not how a substance is
>classified (which is largely a product of FDA law and not science). There
>appears to be a good consensus on this list that any substance used to help
>the horse in any way during a competitive event that has negative
>consequences on the health of the horse should be banned and that a
>substance that helps the horse's long term health should be allowed. The
>problem, as the above questions point out, is that no classification system
>does that successfully. Each substance must stand or fall on its own
>merits. The other problem is that there is disagreement on what substances
>meet this test.
>
>What is needed is a list of approved substances. I know Dr. Frazier had
>indicated historical reasons relating to other rules about what substances
>should be allowed led to the current broad brush rule, particularly because
>under those rules, bute an others became approved substances.
>
>The following from Dane Lee Frazier:
>"Therefore, we felt the only chance to have enforceable and meaningful
>rules about drugs in endurance riding was to prohibit them instead of
>trying to regulate them. Regulation means that you will allow drugs --
>only you will fight about which ones and how much. Prohibition means
>that you will not allow drugs and you will fight about what is a drug."
>
>You will also argue about clearance times. Since it requires a month for a
>loading dose of Flex-Free, I would assume clearance time would be at least
>that long. You also throw the technical burden on those who are not
>technically oriented. From the questions I first asked in this post, it
>appears that some drugs are exempt (under some unstated common sense
>doctrine?) from the rule.
>
>The possible solution: An approved list of substances. No others could be
>used. In keeping with a philosophy that errs on the side of banning
>questionable substances, a substance could be added to the list only with
>a two thirds affirmative vote and could be removed with a one third
>affirmative vote. The arguments will still be there, but the list of
>substances actually approved is going to be a conservative list.
>
>Duncan Fletcher
>dfletche@gte.net
>
>----------
>> From: Ramey Peticolas-Stroud <ramey@wvi.com>
>> To: Dane Lee Frazier <dfrazier@mail.llion.org>
>> Cc: Ridecamp@endurance.net
>> Subject: Re: Drug Policy Info (Long)
>> Date: Monday, December 16, 1996 2:23 PM
>>
>> Dane and those of you interested in our AERC drug rule thread:
>>
>> Please forgive me for taking so long to respond to Dane's last post on
>> the procedural and substantive aspects of the AERC Drug Policy. I
>> needed time to think and do some reading.
>>
>> In this post I will try to briefly summarize our discussion to date and
>> explain why AERC really has TWO drug rules. Next, I'll try to explain
>> how AERC apparently uses a very old common law doctrine in prosecuting
>> drug cases. Finally, I'll close with a few observations.
>>
>> I. Summary of Posts To Date
>>
>> To begin, there are at least four groups involved with the AERC drug
>> rule. Those who are responsible for developing and enforcing the
>> policy; those who generally understand and agree with the rule as
>> written; those who are somewhat confused as to the scope and application
>> of the rule; and finally, those who produce products impacted by the
>> rule. To date, manufacturers of drugs/nutraceuticals have not been a
>> party to our discussion.
>>
>> We have learned that AERC Rule 13 requires endurance equines to compete
>> entirely on their natural ability. The rule specifically prohibits from
>> competition "equines who contain evidence of the administration of
>> abnormal substances or of normal substances in abnormal amounts
>> (exogenously administered compounds even if normally found
>> endogenously)." If one reads this quoted portion of Rule 13 carefully,
>> it becomes obvious that there are TWO ways to violate the rule.
>>
>> The first type of drug prosecution involves the phrase "administration
>> of abnormal substances." This is the pharmaceutical (licensed drug)
>> aspect of the rule. Dane has written that a: "drug is a substance that
>> has a physiological effect THAT IS NOT A NUTRIENT. All nutrients are
>> included in one of six classes: (1.) water; (2.) protein; (3.) vitamins;
>> (4.) carbohydrate; (5.) fat; (6.) minerals." (Emphasis mine.) There is
>> little disagreement the licensed drugs at issue are not normally found
>> in the equine body.
>>
>> Although pharmaceutical cases are more clear cut, they still give rise
>> to the problem of clearance times. In many posts, 72 hours has been
>> mentioned. However, current laboratory methods can detect substance in
>> parts-per-billion and, therefore, 72 hours may not be long enough to
>> prevent a positive test. To this point, no writer has been able to
>> explain how AERC differentiates between a positive (violation) and a
>> positive (residual non-violation). This is interesting in that I am
>> told by professors at our local vet school that many drugs, bute for
>> example, may leave detectable amounts in the equine blood stream for
>> months and even years after administration. The AERC BoD and the Vet
>> Committee feel strongly that riders and members are responsible for
>> solving the clearance time problem.
>>
>> The second violation concept in Rule 13 deals with so-called
>> nutraceuticals. At the out-set of this part of the discussion let me
>> make a correction to my post on the "intent to improve performance"
>> (i.e. the mens rea discussion). I have studied both the AERC Rules on
>> the AERC Homepage and the latest version in my library (1994). Unless
>> revisions have been made since these two sources were published, THERE
>> IS NO SUCH INTENT ELEMENT IN AERC RULE 13. I apologize for not
>> immediately going to the source document instead of relying on E-net
>> quotes.
>>
>> What Rule 13 does say about nutraceuticals is "AERC prohibits from
>> competition equines who contain evidence of . . . normal substances in
>> abnormal amounts (exogenously administered compounds even if normally
>> found endogenously)." There is no published AERC definition of the
>> terms "abnormal amounts" or "exogenously administered compounds." There
>> is a partial list of substances/nutraceuticals banned during competition
>> published by AERC. This list apparently does not indicate relevant
>> clearance times. Again, riders/members have complete responsibility to
>> determine (1) whether their exogenously administered compounds (the
>> stuff we are feeding) are not normally occurring in their horse, and (2)
>> will the substance result in a positive drug test. Advertising claims
>> from manufacturers are not a defense.
>>
>> To conclude this portion of the post, I'll summarize the AERC position
>> by again quoting Dane: "Therefore, it becomes the obligation of the
>> owner/rider to take responsibility for the compounds given their horse.
>> If they are unsure as to the effect of anything they may administer,
>> then withdrawing the substance so that it has no effect on performance
>> during competition is prudent."
>>
>> II. The Common Law Doctrine of Res Ipsa Loquitur
>> (The Act Speaks For Itself).
>>
>> Dane mentioned that a positive drug test was accepted by the BoD as
>> conclusive evidence of a Rule 13 violation: "the thing speaks for
>> itself," he said. What he was referring to was a very, very old common
>> law rule of evidence. Within the limits of my DIMR, I'll try to explain
>> it.
>> All Americans, either by birth or naturalization, are guaranteed
>> certain fundamental rights. For purposes of this discussion, these
>> rights are extended to citizens of other countries by either their
>> membership in AERC or by participation in an AERC sanctioned event. One
>> such fundamental right is that we are considered innocent until proven
>> guilty. In other words, the state has the burden of proving the
>> defendant committed the crime. In civil matters the person making the
>> claim usually has the burden of proving their case. That is, once all
>> elements of the plaintiff's legal theory (a prima facie case) has been
>> presented by the plaintiff, the defendant has a right to rebut the
>> evidence and/or explain why that evidence doesn't matter.
>>
>> There are exceptions to the rule. The Doctrine of Res Ipsa Loquitur is
>> a common law concept that shifts the burden of proof in civil cases from
>> the plaintiff (in this case, AERC) to the defendant (the owner/rider of
>> the horse). The doctrine applies to events that only occur where there
>> has been some negligent act. Stated differently, some courts conclude
>> that the OCCURRENCE ITSELF is enough to prove negligence. For example,
>> if you cut your mouth on a chunk of glass that was in a can of peas
>> opened just before eating, the presence of the glass alone may be enough
>> to shift the burden of proof to the cannery. In other words, but for
>> some negligence, cans of peas do not contain glass.
>>
>> To invoke the Res Ipsa doctrine in Rule 13 cases, AERC must generally
>> prove three things: (1) A positive drug test does not normally occur
>> unless there was prohibited conduct; (2) Such conduct is within the
>> scope of duty the member owes to AERC; and, (3) Neither AERC nor some
>> third party contributed to or caused the positive test.
>>
>> I'll attempt to explain. In Step (1) AERC will use expert testimony to
>> show that a blood and/or urine test came back positive. The actual
>> administration of drugs may be shown by inference. That is, direct
>> witnesses are not needed, only that the rider or owner entered the
>> drug-positive horse in the AERC sanctioned event.
>> Step (2) is satisfied when a members joins AERC or a rider enters an
>> AERC sanctioned event; those acts alone represent agreement to comply
>> with all AERC rules. The promise not break AERC rules then becomes an
>> absolute duty owed to AERC.
>> To satisfy Step (3) AERC must show that neither they nor some third
>> party contributed to or caused the positive test. This is where the
>> sampling procedures, the chain-of evidence and the laboratory process
>> come into play. AERC must unconditionally prove that all uniform
>> procedures were followed to the letter.
>>
>> If AERC can meet this three part test, then under the res ipsa concept
>> the responsibility of going forward with the evidence shifts to the
>> owner/rider. Possible defense strategies can be the subject of a future
>> post if there's interest.
>>
>> III. Conclusion
>>
>> It is obvious now that AERC has adopted an extremely simple way to deal
>> with equine drugs and nutraceuticals. The vet and rules committees,
>> with BoD approval, have avoided a lot of work by shifting total
>> responsibility for compliance to owners and riders. Under the current
>> rule, members must either become or hire biochemists to determine what's
>> in every substance, drug, remedy, herb, nutraceutical, foodstuff or
>> product given to their horses. Further, members are entirely
>> responsible for determining minimum clearance times.
>>
>> Is shifting the scientific burden to members rational? Is it fair? Is
>> there a reasonable alternative? What responsibility do manufacturers
>> have, if any? These are political questions for future discussion.
>>
>> Our family is heading to the Death Valley Multiday so I'll address any
>> questions when we return. Good cheer to all and a happy new ride year.
>>
>> Ramey.
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 12:44:11 -0500
>From: Wrecksduke@aol.com
>To: ridecamp@endurance.net
>Subject: Re: prev ad re 14 yo mare fs
>Message-ID: <961219124330_1887751385@emout17.mail.aol.com>
>
>Linda,
>
>thanks for your inquiry. I'm located in Southern California. If you are in
>Virginia... this might not work. If still interested: Melody --->
>Wrecksduke@aol.com
>
>Melody
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 12:34:25 -0500
>From: "Flemmer, Linda" <LFlemmer@CHKD.com>
>To: "'ridecamp@endurance.net'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
>Subject: prev ad re 14 yo mare fs
>Message-ID: <c=US%a=_%p=CHKD%l=EXCHANGE1-961219173425Z-486@exchange1.CHKD.COM>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>Archives (?& list?) are down. Would the person who posted the ad for
>the "14 yo mare 14.1 hands with experience at Tevis, etc. with a
>negotiable price/looking for good home" please Email me. My farrier is
>looking for a second horse and is possibly interested in her. He
>recently retired his old campaigner and is bringing up a new gelding.
>He'd like something in between to ride.
>
>Linda Flemmer
>Chesapeake, VA
>Linda Flemmer
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 13:59:55 -0500
>From: RUN4BEAR@aol.com
>To: RIDECAMP@endurance.net
>Subject: TEST MESSAGE
>Message-ID: <961219135655_1389390157@emout12.mail.aol.com>
>
>Just wanted to know if anyone else is now getting some ridecamp mail...I
>started getting some as of 11:43 AM EST.
>
>Teddy
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 14:11:37 -0500
>From: "Flemmer, Linda" <LFlemmer@CHKD.com>
>To: "'RUN4BEAR@aol.com'" <RUN4BEAR@aol.com>
>Cc: "'ridecamp@endurance.net'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
>Subject: RE: TEST MESSAGE
>Message-ID: <c=US%a=_%p=CHKD%l=EXCHANGE1-961219191137Z-512@exchange1.CHKD.COM>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>>Just wanted to know if anyone else is now getting some ridecamp
>>mail...I
>>started getting some as of 11:43 AM EST.
>
>Teddy,
>
>Same here. I don't know what happened to the list! Maybe Steph will be
>forthcoming with the technical answers soon.
>
>Linda Flemmer
>Chesapeake, VA
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 14:33:42 -0500
>From: Lietzke1@aol.com
>To: ridecamp@endurance.net
>Subject: Re: TEST MESSAGE
>Message-ID: <961219142842_610119209@emout09.mail.aol.com>
>
>Hi
> I just turned my computer on and I had five ride camp messages. Merry
>Christmas and a wonderful New Year.
>Jane and Doug
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 11:45:06 -0800
>From: Niccolai Murphy <niccom@aerostructures.com>
>To: ridecamp <ridecamp@endurance.net>
>Subject: Dynamite retailer?
>Message-ID: <32B99B42.6359@aerostructures.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>Apologies for a slight off topic request, but I seen mentioned Dynamite
>supplement to promote hoof growth here a few times in the past. Has
>anyone got a phone number of a retailer, andany experience with whether
>the stuff worked?
>Thanks
>--
>Nicco Murphy Aerostructures Inc. F/A-18 Group, San Diego,
>(619)545-3333
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 13:55:41 -0600 (CST)
>From: adrienne suzanne pape <pape@students.uiuc.edu>
>To: "'ridecamp'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
>Subject: no mail
>Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.961219135330.2114B-100000@ux5.cso.uiuc.edu>
>Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
>
>Steph,
> Me again, having trouble with ridecamp once more. It may be our
>server here at school but I haven't gotten anything for two days.
>Whatever you did last time fixed it then, can you help once more? Thanks
>so much!
>
> Adie
>
>
>******************************************************************************
> "The really happy person is the one who can enjoy the scenery when he
> has to take a detour."
>
> "God forbid that I should go to any heaven in which there are no
> horses." --R.B. Cunninghame Graham
>******************************************************************************
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 12:30:11 -0800 (PST)
>From: Stephanie Teeter <step>
>To: ridecamp@endurance.net
>Subject: [Jennifer_Henry@bc.sympatico.ca: Horses for sale - Endurance]
>Message-Id: <199612192030.MAA08179@fsr.com>
>
>Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 07:52:37 -0800
>From: Jennifer Henry <Jennifer_Henry@bc.sympatico.ca>
>Organization: Tuscany Park Arabians & Pintos
>X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02E-SYMPA (Win16; I)
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>To: step@fsr.com
>Subject: Horses for sale - Endurance
>X-URL: http://www.endurance.net/Classifieds/
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>Flashy Distance prospect! 1996 Pinto Arab/Saddlebred colt, Carnival's
>Caramel Candy. Sired by Pinto ASB stallion from strong performance lines
>(Eventing, Hunter/Jumper, Dressage and yes! Endurance) out of
>Arab/Saddlebred mare of Crabbet/*Gaypolka lines. Mare has done CTR's,
>reining, Jumping,stock work - you name it! and produced offspring now
>succeful in Distance. SIre and dam both performing and producing .This
>colt is outstandingly correct - elegant,with substance galore and will
>mature 16H. Lovely neck, hip and topline and effortless stride - should
>do well in Distance, Dressage or....?? Sweet and sensible nature, eager
>to please. Priced in Canadian funds at OFFERS TO $2,500.00 Ph: (250)
>2577-3525 Fax: (250) 577-3507 E-Mail: jhhenry@mail.netshop.net
>Thank you and Happy Holidays!!
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 12:44:49 -0800 (PST)
>From: Stephanie Teeter <step>
>To: ridecamp@endurance.net
>Subject: [jessicat@napanet.net: Want AD]
>Message-Id: <199612192044.MAA08589@fsr.com>
>
>Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 10:43:34 -0800
>X-Sender: jessicat@napanet.net
>X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3
>Mime-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>To: step@fsr.com
>From: jessicat@napanet.net (Jessica Tuteur)
>Subject: Want AD
>
>SPORT SADDLE WANTED used (but not too old). I would like black with the
>fleece underside and no horn. Please call (707) 258-1937 or email
>jessicat@napanet.net
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 12:47:37 -0800
>From: PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com (KIMBERLY PRICE)
>To: ridecamp@endurance.net
>Subject: Mystery's mystery lameness continues...
>Message-Id: <199612192047.MAA05217@dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com>
>
>Update on Mystery's lameness:
>
>background: lame on front left. Blocking revealed heal pain. No type
>of discoloration or abcess has presented itself. Xrays came out clear.
>He failed the flex test after the blocking.
>
>One week in catchpen, improvement noted, out with the boyz in the herd
>again, 3 days later...limping pathetically. Slight bow below knee
>behind the leg about 2 inches long, could feel the "filling" and little
>heat. Vet came out.
>
>He doesn't feel it is navicular. Thanks for the literature on it
>(scarey stuff!). Doesn't feel the bow is much to worry about. Is not
>making me wrap it. Mystery is back in the catch pen again. By Monday
>he is still ouchy and this includes the back now. I feel something
>more is going on. Started him on bute under Dr's instructions.
>
>I've soaked his leg 3 days in a row in hot water and ebsom salts. No
>improvement, no abcess revealed. He is now on bute this week only to
>see if relief gives us a cue as to what is going on. Dr. says next
>option is time and rest and/or U.C.Davis for more tests (I can't afford
>it).
>
>Any suggestions. Does this sound right? Is there more I could be
>doing? Should I just play the waiting game and see?
>
>Thanks!
>Kimberly (&Mystery the Morab)
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 16:17:13 -0500
>From: Tivers@aol.com
>To: ridecamp@endurance.net
>Subject: Re: Mystery's mystery lameness continues...
>Message-ID: <961219161348_841651678@emout13.mail.aol.com>
>
>In a message dated 96-12-19 15:50:59 EST, you write:
>
><< Any suggestions. Does this sound right? Is there more I could be
> doing? Should I just play the waiting game and see?
>
> Thanks!
> Kimberly (&Mystery the Morab) >>
>
>Kimberly,
>
>How close are you to Dr. Jim Waldsmith in San Luis Obispo? He has an infrared
>thermography unit that should be able to locat the spot causing trouble. I
>don't think you've found it yet.
>
>ti
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 15:19:16 -0600 (CST)
>From: Diane F Arnett <rumor@ksu.edu>
>To: ride <ridecamp@endurance.net>
>Subject: winter shoeing options????
>Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.961219151103.25900A@fox.ksu.ksu.edu>
>Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
>
>Hi all,
> As a fairly new horse-owner I am a bit perplexed as to how to
>handle shoeing in the winter time. The horses have regular iron shoes
>(sorry that's as techinical as I know) and ice and snow (it finally
>snowed here in Kansas) are compacted in the shoe and the horses are
>walking on a big ball of snow and ice - looks very uncomfortable and also
>dangerous from slipping (as I'm sure you all know).
> Anyway, what do I do? My husbands horse isn't being ridden, so
>I've decided to let him go barefoot. But, I still ride JJ every chance I
>get (and as much as I can stand the cold weather). What should I put on
>him that is good for riding in the snow, will keep the snow and ice from
>building up, and is also good for when the snow melts. Often here in
>Kansas we get snow, it melts, then we get snow again, then it melts, etc.
>etc.
> Thank-you for your response.
> Dianna Arnett
> Manhattan, KS
>
>PS I too have not been getting ridecamp - 22 messages in the last 3 days
>(I think)
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 09:37:33 -0800
>From: Patricia Hampton <nwind@povn.com>
>To: ridecamp@endurance.net
>Subject: endurance horse for sale
>Message-Id: <199612192129.NAA09947@fsr.com>
>
>Strictly endurance! Eleven year old reg. Arabian gelding. 15.3 hands.
>Not bad habits. Good manners, obedient on the trail. Good trot and
>loves to go. Very athletic and competitive. Has done three short
>rides, placed high in all and won best conditioned in all. Ready for
>longer rides. Asking $3200. Idaho (208) 983-1450
>
>Pat Hampton
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 16:20:44 -0400
>From: truman.prevatt@netsrq.com (Truman Prevatt)
>To: ridecamp@endurance.net
>Subject: Re: Mares returning to work after foaling
>Message-Id: <v01540b00aedf5341e99a@[198.252.56.89]>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>My mare did her first 50 - 90 days after her first foal was weaned. She
>has done almost 2000 miles since then - one win, several seconds, many top
>tens, one BC and the ROC. She is now "retired" to have another foal at
>present.
>
>So I don't think it ruins them.
>
>Truman
>
>
>
>Truman Prevatt
>Sarasota, FL
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 13:44:48 +0000 (US/Pacific)
>From: Bengt-Erik Norum <bnorum@fsr.com>
>To: ridecamp@endurance.net
>Subject: move.
>Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.94.961219133856.2746B-100000@redfish.fsr.com>
>Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
>
>first step research (and by default, endurance.net) has moved to a new
>location.
>
>"the move" presented many more problems than previously anticipated.
>ridecamp@endurance.net was adversely affected.
>
>all should be well, now.
>
> bengt-erik norum, bnorum@fsr.com
> http://www.misc.org/geeks/bnorum/
> sysadmin, first step research
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 16:58:35 -0500
>From: "Flemmer, Linda" <LFlemmer@CHKD.com>
>To: "'rumor@ksu.edu'" <rumor@ksu.edu>
>Cc: "'ridecamp@endurance.net'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
>Subject: RE: winter shoeing options????
>Message-ID: <c=US%a=_%p=CHKD%l=EXCHANGE1-961219215835Z-584@exchange1.CHKD.COM>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>Dianna,
>
>>What should I put on
>>him that is good for riding in the snow, will keep the snow and ice
>>from
>>building up, and is also good for when the snow melts. Often here in
>>Kansas we get snow, it melts, then we get snow again, then it melts,
>>etc.
>>etc.
>
>We live in an area that gets occasional snow and LOTS of mud in the
>winter. Snow pads are not a good option as the mud sucks them right off
>of the feet. We bought EasyBoots sized to fit over the foot with the
>shoe and all. It has worked quite well and they are removeable when not
>needed.
>
>Good luck staying warm!
>>
>>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 14:06:47 -0800 (PST)
>From: Stephanie Teeter <step>
>To: ridecamp@endurance.net
>Subject: ridecamp administration
>Message-Id: <199612192206.OAA11185@fsr.com>
>
>My apologies to all of you who sent me messages about
>ridecamp - too many to reply to all of you personally!
>
>The list is back up. We moved our business to a new, bigger,
>better building downtown. and encountered a few problems
>bringing the computers back up. Most problems are now
>fixed, and the guys are hoping they can get some sleep
>now!
>
>I am going to shut the list down for a week, from
>Dec 24 to Jan 2. I'm in Virginia for the holidays and
>my staff and I all need a break from admin duties. If you
>can't stand the quiet, there's an awful lot of info
>in the ridecamp archives - maybe you can dig up some
>interesting items.
>
>take care - and happy holidays!
>
>Steph
>
>--
>
> ,+'^'+, ,+'^'+,
>Steph Teeter http://www.endurance.net
> `+,.,+'
>
>
>EnduranceNet Sweatshirts and T-shirts available!
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 15:06:56 -0800 (PST)
>From: Tommy Crockett <tomydore@goblin.punk.net>
>To: ridecamp@endurance.net
>cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
>Subject: Re: Mystery's mystery lameness continues...
>Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.91.961219150602.17099A-100000@goblin.punk.net>
>Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
>
>On Thu, 19 Dec 1996 Tivers@aol.com wrote:
>
>> << Any suggestions. Does this sound right? Is there more I could be
>> doing? Should I just play the waiting game and see?
>>
>> Thanks!
>> Kimberly (&Mystery the Morab) >>
>>
>> Kimberly,
>>
>> How close are you to Dr. Jim Waldsmith in San Luis Obispo? He has an infrared
>> thermography unit that should be able to locat the spot causing trouble. I
>> don't think you've found it yet.
>
>Forget Jim go to Gary Gordon in Paso, the best leg man on the central
>coast... He's got the equipment as well...
>
>t
>
>
> Tommy Crockett <tomydore@goblin.punk.net>
> Los Osos, California 93402-2715
> "it won't matter what you're saying when
> the damage has all been done"
> Mary Chapin Carpenter
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 16:31:23 -0600 (CST)
>From: Samm C Bartee <bartesc@mail.auburn.edu>
>To: Endurance <ridecamp@endurance.net>
>Subject: for fun
>Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.961219162754.17575Q-100000@wood2>
>Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
>
>To the tune of the 12 days of Christmas!
>On the twelfth day of Christmas, my true love gave to me:
>
>Twelve well marked trails
>Eleven best conditions
>ten first place race offs
>nine pre paid entries
>eight hours sleep
>seven sunny weekends
>six easy races
>five thousand miles!!!!
>a four horse slant load trailer
>three endurance vets
>two conditioned horses
>
>and a brand new diesel dualley!!!!
>
>
>written by me, samm c. bartee and well, mostly by my husband Lance
>McCoy!! enjoy everyone, and have a great holiday.
>
>
>
>APPY TRAILS
>
>
>
>SAMM C. BARTEE
>Auburn, Al. SE Region
>with
>SIR REVEL--1305 miles and........!!!
>B JETS WAR EAGLE--endurance wannabe
>
>--------------------------------
>End of ridecamp-d Digest V96 Issue #52
>**************************************
>
>