RE: Hoof Angles/Pastern Angles(2)

[Karen Standefer <hrschk@yahoo.com>]

>>Karen - let me say first that I want to commend us
all on hanging in there through this thread without
losing our cool. It's a difficult topic to explain in
words, and it's way too easy to lose it when a point
is not getting through.<<

Thanks, Abby.  My only motivation for entering into a
discussion like this is because I believe it helps the
horses in the end.  Even if it raises the level of
understanding for just a few people, it's worth the
effort to talk about it.  As I've mentioned before,
it's really sad for me to see all the horses of my
friends who have been retired at very young ages just
because someone didn't think things could be changed
for the better for these horses.  As well, it's tough
to hear about all the horses put down because of
incurrable navicular or founder that I know that I
could have helped.  If the horse gives up, it's one
thing, but if it's fighting, then it deserves a shot
at a healthy life.  

>>In your experience, what is the normal range of
coffin bone angles?<<

Wow, normal range.  Not sure.  I know the healthy
range (endurance sound) is ground
parallel..........period.  We get horses with all
sorts of ranges of coffin bone tilt and rotation.  Our
goal, 100% of the time, is to attain and maintain a
ground parallel coffin bone.   I'm sure there is a
range that a horse can be sound, but all ways I strive
for ground parallel.   

>>Yes it would. Do you believe that there's no such
thing as a horse whose tendons will not allow P3 to
descend to ground parallel?<<

I have to say NEVER because I'm not sure I believe
that.  I don't have any experience trying to fix one
that was that way from birth (at least not that was
documented that way from birth).  I believe
congenitally short tendons is the only way that the
tendons would actually be shorter than they should be
to allow the P3 to be ground parallel.  Others have
told me that tendons can be stretched to allow P3 to
be ground parallel.  I don't have experience to
confirm that personally.  But, in a horse who
developed a club hoof (for whatever reason), the
tendons don't actually contract.  The muscles do.   
So, in a hoof like that, I believe the muscles can be
stretched back out and allow the tendons and ligaments
to do their respective functions again of supporting
the horse.  

>>EEK - this is where I get hung up. How can the
shoulder angle be expected to follow the pastern
angle? There are four joints between them, 2 of which
are hinge joints and so have a fixed extension point.
The 3rd is a complex weight-bearing joint that also
has a limit of extension. The way I see it, if the
cannon bone is perpendicular, the shoulder blade can
only have one angle. Only the fetlock joint has a
sling of tendons supporting it.<<

I'll respond to this in a separate mail.  Just too
much detail to do here at work.

>>But there's much more to the conformation of the leg
than the laminae and the bones ... There are the joint
surfaces and tendon lengths that the horse was born
with or that have been altered by injury, disease, or
diet. I'm a great believer in the Power of the Trim,
and I'm the last person to pull the plug on a horse
because of its feet. I just stop short of being
convinced that any one treatment modality can fix all
problems, or that proper trimming can change all
conformation traits.<<

Agreed that there is much more than laminae and bones.
 Was trying to keep this simple for the general
public.  There is a very large veterinary public that
does not believe that tendon lengths can be
contracted.  We all know they can be stretched.  But,
they are not very resilient; they don't pop back into
shape or become contracted.  I believe it is the
muscles attached to them that contract and also those
muscles that need to be stretched when resetting the
angle of the hoof.  I don't believe all conformation
issues can be fixed.  I believe, the ones caused by
human intervention and *some* injuries can, however. 
I also believe that a high percentage of what we
consider to be conformation faults are not the natural
conformation at all, but imposed by human intervention
of some sort.  I also believe that most arthritis and
all ringone can be prevented with proper bone
alignment (p1,2,3).  I believe that Sidebone can be
prevented, also, but that's a completely different
discussion becuase it involves shoeing vs barefoot
issues that I don't want to discuss here. 

>>Because pathologically shortened tendons can only
lengthen so far?  I would never suggest that it was
not worth trying - I would even say that boxy feet can
be brought down to a *more* natural angle. I would
also say that I would never stop trimming any horse
correctively - every trim is corrective. I always
continue to work toward an ideal. BUT one
thing I won't do is predict the outcome that I will
get. If age and experience have taught me anything,
it's that every day is an experiment. If I lose that
humility, I'm toast.<<

We differ on our basic truths here, so no need to
discuss this point further.   And, I believe we've
already defined a clubby hoof and a boxy hoof to be
the difference between the coffin bone alignment with
the clubby hoof having a steeper coffin bone alignment
that it should.  

Continued.....................




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