Ridecamp: Re: [RC] Break Their Neck Training

There is a world of difference between being firm and not letting them have their way and "oh well if they break their necks its their fault". I have dealt with several rather difficult horses in my life and one of them was a rearer, untieable brat. He will now stand wonderfully and has stopped rearing under saddle. I never had to resort to cruelty either in method or in philosophy. I hardly think Howard objecting to the methods and moreso the attitude described puts him in the category of somebody who would put others in danger with a "wild" horse. I think the major shocking part was the attitude of oh well they're dogfood anyway. That and the rumppoking with the rake.

Jess

----- Original Message -----

From: Sullivan

To: Howard Bramhall ; ridecamp

Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2002 11:03 PM

Subject: Re: [RC] Break Their Neck Training

Regarding Howard's comments;

 

I have to wonder how many years and experiences you have with horses.  Do you even know the difference between an untrained animal and a spoiled animal?.

 

To me, the person who is "horrible" is the person who does not correct whatever dangerous behavior (not tieing, rearing, bucking, kicking), generally making some excuse for the horse, and then SELLS it or passes it along to someone who will get hurt.  Lets jab the person with a pitchfork who sold me the so-called kids horse, that would REAR every time it did not get it's way. 

 

John Lyons tying methods work great as a training method with horses that have not learned to give to pressure.  There is a world of difference between them, and a spoiled horse, that ONCE knew what to do, but due to clueless people learned it could pull back-rear-buck-kick etc, when it did not want to do something. 

 

Why is it important for horses to lead, tie, load, have their feet and mouth handled, etc?  Lets not even adress riding safely, lets assume a person wants a pasture pet.  So....what happens when the horse needs worning, shots, feet done, transporting and YOU, as an owner can't make horsie behave?  You then put the danger on the farrier, vet, hauler, etc.  Are YOU willing to trim this horse and promise to do all vet work yourself?  No, you are going to expose THEM to this dangerous animal. 

 

And, if the horse truly cannot be reformed...well, a 1,000 lb. animal with steel-shod feet is a liability and danger to you and anyone else that has to handle the unfortunate animal.  So lets take it out in public on an endurance ride and inflict it on everyone else.

 

Howard, I thought you had at least a crumb of common sense after you spoke up about the risks of preschoolers on endurance rides. But sounds like one of the risks out there, on out-of-control horses is YOU.

See, I can explain this without calling you names, but it sure sounds to me like you get your jollies by riding horses that are either out of control, or look like they are out of control.  This does not impress anyone.

 

And, once this horse figured out it could no longer pull back to get it's way.....well, suddenly, all the bad behaviour disapears, now you can bridle this horse, open it's mouth, load it nicely, and touch it all over.

The horse has an pleasant and willing attitude.

 

I supposed we could have done 2 years of John Lyon's or  Parelli clinics with this horse.  I can guarantee, that while that will help, the ONLY thing I have ever seen that will cure a puller, is to have the horses tied correctly, with the right equipment, and let the horse battle it out. A horse that blows up and pulls back, puts anyone in the near vicinity in danger. 

 

Personally, I am tired of people who continually make excuses for their horses (might kick, doesn't tie, needs help loading), without even attempting to correct it or send to a trainer....but then require help from others....

that is how people get badly hurt.

----- Original Message -----

From: Howard Bramhall

To: ridecamp

Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2002 12:18 PM

Subject: [RC] Break Their Neck Training

Am I the only one upset with this post?  What is wrong here?  This person sees herself as a rescuer, but, believes that if a horse doesn't respond to her the way he should than the horse is "dog food?"  Breaking the horse's neck is a risk she's willing to take? Is this some sort of tongue and cheek humor I don't get?

 

Please, if you're serious, do not rescue any more mishandled horses. IF you're the rescuer, who on earth was the abuser?  Attila, the horse eating Hun?  For the sake of the species, all breeds, I really don't think they need your type of help.  Who trained you to train horses like this?  Was his name Radical Ralph, the Red necked Rancher & Risk Taker (notice who is at risk here)?  I do believe someone needs to poke you in the butt with a pitch fork for being the one who is most stupid here.  Allow me.  And, yes, I do find you to be quite horrible, even with those horse treats in your hand.

 

cya,

Howard (somehow, I don't think she bothered with any of the John Lyon's courses) 

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