Ridecamp: Re: [RC] glucosamine, chondroitin and MSM, and Tests

Hi Jackie,

Sorry no one else responded and I didn't get to this.  
I've been a huge advocate of providing CS and GAGS orally 
for working endurance horses for over 5 years now because 
of the annectdotal experience I've had with these products.

Per the NextLevel... a great product!  Yes, the MSM is 
on the illegal substances list for the AERC and it will 
show up in a test as will DMSO.  Not something you want 
in your horse's blood stream at a ride.

That said, many endurance riders advocate simply pulling 
your horse off of the substance 4 or more days before the 
ride.  Personally, I'd do atleast a week, but that's just 
me.  If you were purchasing oral joint supps for your 
current endurance horse I'd recommend something like 
Sure-Flex which has good quantities of both CS and GAGS 
without any of the other antiinflamitories like yucca, 
MSM, and devil's claw.  You don't want any of those 3 in 
your horse at an AERC ride.  It's pretty hard though to 
find a joint supp that has both CS and GAGS without any 
of the other antiinflamitories because they all work so 
well together.  The other option is to purchase pure CS 
and pure GAGS and mix them in appropriate amounts.

Since you already have the NextLevel, I'd go ahead and use
it and withdraw before an event.  The MSM does have major
synergistic results with the oral joint supps in most
horses.  It not only reduces inflamation, but it also seems
to "get the stuff to the right places" better and faster.
With your older retired horses, you definately wanted MSM,
yucca, devil's claw, ...

In the future, I'd not use the MSM, yucca, or devil's claw
for your competition horse.  But that's just my own humble 
opinion.  Personally, I don't want to see my endurance
competition horse on any antiinflamitories on a daily basis.
I want to know what's going on and then add them if I need
them for certain situations.

The response you got from Bob is in reference to horses who 
*need* these substances to stay sound.  A horse who is not 
sound without these products should probably not be on the 
endurance competition trail.  However, use of these products 
to protect those young healthy horse joints over the long 
haul is a good idea.  Thus they are on the allowed AERC 
list as they do not cover up injuries and are beneficial. 
Probably a working endurance horse should be on joint supps 
by age 10 or so. 

Your question has come up in the past and there is no 
exact answer other than the AERC has a Zero Tolerance 
Drug Rule, which is a good thing.  You don't see many 
drug violations, but then your chance of getting tested 
at a ride is pretty low, atleast it was back in 
California because there were so many horses.  However, 
Blue and I did get tested once.  There was no one from 
the AERC testing at the last ride I did.  The AERC has 
no published withdrawl times as any amount found is 
technically a violation.  This question has come up 
several times over the years of Ridecamp (including by 
myself many years ago) and there is simply no answer.

I like to call CS and GAGS "vitamin G".  Hope this helps,

:) - Kathy Myers
in Santa Fe, NM
ps.. there also was just a recent thread on joint supps
within the last couple months which may also be why 
responses to your email were non-existant.

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