Ridecamp: Re: [RC] questions re: breeding - mare age, genetics of grey, eastern endurance

Hi there, Amanda, was it?
Anywho, the following is my personal experience in breeding (probably
foaled over 75 babies--- but still doesn't make me an expert by any
means). Whether you would always get a gray from a gray mare would
depend whether your mare was
a homozygous gray.  I have one gray mare who ALWAYS throws grays (I
suspect...) and another one who threw more chestnuts than grays when she
was bred to my stallion Halynov, who was a chestnut (homozygous
chestnut). I am simplifying as I used to think there was a black gene
which was recessive to chestnut as
it seemed the chestnut over-rode the black gene and then I found out it
was A LOT more complicated than that and there are a variety of
interactions which go into determining color. Whew! Talk about run-on 
sentences!
Simplistically speaking,
if you breed a bay or a chestnut to a gray that is NOT homozygous gray,
you have a 50-50 chance of getting something else, depending on what the
mare's non-gray gene is. Bay usually overshadows chestnut in Arabians and
Chestnut requires both genes to be red--- if one has a black gene then
you can get a liver chestnut or even a black in some cases. Black
over-rides red.
So far as her age, it is iffy. The 21 year old mare I was given in foal
by the Hearst ranch had dystocia and died in childbirth--- there was
nothing the vet could do--- by the time he arrived, the foal was too
weak to save with a C-sec and the mare ruptured the vaginal wall,
pushing her intestines into my lap----- horrible ---horrible experience
(my second foal) and one my family will never forget. And she got in
foal--- many never even get that far. She had carried the foal an extra
30 days and we were about to induce (which has its risks, too). The vet
said that longer labors can occur with older mares.
The fact your mare had a foal last year would increase her chances of
getting pregnant--- but there are risks at that age. I would make sure
the mare is in good health.
The year before Halynov died, a breeder negotiated breeding four of her
mares and shipped them to me--- failed to mention their ages of 17-21!!!
She spent a fortune with AI, paying the vet (I won't inseminate outside
mares as it requires palpation, etc.--- delicate). They arrived in Sept
so we were working against time.
I felt so sorry for her spending all that money with only one of her
mares in foal to show for it that, with her permission, I put the three
others in pasture with Halynov. He was in STUD heaven, mares fighting
over him, etc. HE bred them in Nov and they ALL checked in foal in
Dec--- a real Christmas present as they had not been bred for 4 and more
years. They all had beautiful babies! It was Hal's last gift to us and 
made my heart glad that he spent his last three months on his life with 
his harem. Sooo there are happy stories too.
Just more of a gamble with older mares and I have personally found that
the BEST way to get them
pregnant (despite what many vets will tell you) has been with pasture
breeding---- both in my experience, and other breeders I know who have
had the
same experience. It supposedly has to do with more frequent breeding and
less sperm/breeding. At least that was one theory. I do know that when
we returned 20 year old Czaprak to his owner in Scottsdale, she put him
in with 4 of her Aristocrat Polish mares (each around 20 + years old)
whom she hadn't been able to get in foal for years. He was such a lady
killer and so gentlemanly, we used him to tease, too. Barry later told me
he got them ALL in foal that year. Lynn Miller also has found this to be
the best way to breed her older mares--- these are two heavy hitter 
breeders.
I'm sure the vets on here will have some thoughts on this as well.
BTW Have you considered leasing a quality mare to breed. I know I do
that for my clients and other breeders do as well. Keeps our mares in
foal to keep them fertile without having to have a foal of our own every
year from all of our mares. Something to consider, if breeding would be
your sole purpose for buying the mare.
Good luck
Bette
PS Have had MANY grays and three horses die of cancer--- they were ALL
bays! Go figure! The luck of the draw (but then we have owned over 100
horses so our odds increase, I guess. Many grays and no melanoma (that I
know of yet). And we live in sunny California!

Ridecamp Guest wrote:

 > A. Perez walkergirl@xxxxxxxxxx My next door neighbor has offered to sell
 >  me his 20 yo flea-bitten grey TB mare for $750. (pending prior offer
 >  being withdrwn).  She had a half-sire foal last year.  In general,
 >  how long can (until what age) mares be bred, assuming otherwise
 > healthy?  Also, it is my understanding that grey is dominant (if
 > one parent is grey, foal will always be grey): is this correct?  I
 > worry about melamonas with greys.  I am consider breeding her to an
 >  arab for futrue enduance mount (maybe by the time the foal is
 > reasy to be ridden, I'll have a trailer!
 >
 > One last question: someone recently commented about how nice it was to
 >  go to a ride where the 50 mile ride did not require repeating trails.
 >   Is this a reason why there are fewer endurance rides in the east
 > - shortage of venues with miles of trails?  I would LOVE to see
 > more rides close to the DC metro region; Doncaster ride is the
 > nearest, followed by the Old Dominion.  How can this be accomplished?
 >   Having not yet ridden in an endurance ride, I hardly feel
 > qualified to start one on my own.  Lastly, what is the rarional
 > behind the rule that LD rides must be held in conjunction with a
 > non-LD ride (or am I mistaken)?
 >
 > Thanks
 >
 >
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--
Bette Lamore
Whispering Oaks Arabians
Home of 16.2h TLA Halynov
who lives on through his legacy
Hal's Riverdance!
http://www.arabiansporthorse.com



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