Re: Saddle Woes (OF)

["Elizabeth Wade" <claywade00@hotmail.com>]

AMEN!!!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <guest@endurance.net>
To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2001 11:59 AM
Subject: RC: Saddle Woes (OF)


> K S SWIGART   katswig@earthlink.net
> 
> 
> Nancy Maxeiner said:
> 
> > I posted a note a few weeks back about OF and its business problems.
> > I have paid money and have no saddle.  I have contacted the atty
> > gen'l in MO and they have said that once a company dissoves (which
> > OF has) they are under no obligation to fulfill any orders or repay
> > any money.
> 
> Actually, it depends on the legal form of the company.
> 
> > Apparently, prosecuting for fraud is a tough thing to
> > prove
> 
> Prosecuting for fraud is probably a non-starter in this
> situation not just because it would be hard to prove, but
> that, in fact, there probably wasn't any fraud.  I haven't
> heard anybody suggest that OF was deliberately taking
> funds for orders that they had no intention of fulfilling
> so that individuals within the company could abscond with
> funds.  Taking orders for product up front and requiring
> a payment in advance, while having the intent to deliver
> the goods upon completion of manufacture, and then
> discovering that the ability to deliver the goods as
> promised is beyond your resources might be poor business
> management, but it does not constitute fraud.
> 
> > and suing can happen but is only worthwhile if there are
> > assets.  (Word has it there are no saddles in stock and Len is
> > living in a camp trailer in a field). So far the AG has written
> > dear Len Brown a letter asking how he plans on compensating folks
> > but that's about all they will/can do.  IF they have MANY complaints,
> > more might happen.
> 
> What exactly WOULD you like Len Brown to do?  He can't send you
> a saddle, he doesn't have one.  And he can't send you a check, because
> it would bounce; he doesn't have any money either.  Where are you
> suggesting that a saddle or some funds come from? You know you can't
> get it from Orthoflex or Len Brown, who are you suggesting should take
> on that obligation instead?
> 
> > My suggestion to anyone in a similar situation
> > with OF is to howl to the moon.  Write and tell EVERYONE what's gone
> > on.
> 
> My suggestion would be slightly different.  If I were in the same
> situation, had no legal recourse, and actually wanted to get something
> for the money that I had fronted.  I wouldn't be howling, I would be
> polite not howling.  It is my experience, especially in situations where
> parties can legally tell you to go jump in a lake, that I am more likely
> to get something if I ask nicely.
> 
> So my suggestion to anyone in a similar situation with OF is to lodge
> an appropriate claim with whatever legal authorities have jurisdiction,
> and asked to be kept informed about the status of the company and
> whether anybody is going to take up on the saddle manufacture where
> OF and Len Brown left off.  And then get in touch with anybody who
> might later take on such manufacture and hope that (by telling them
> I ordered the saddle in the first place because I thought it was a
> quality product and was excited about the idea of being able to use
> it in my partnership with my horse) the new owners would be eager
> to build good will with somebody who might then be either a repeat
> customer or recommend the saddle to their friends not only because
> it is a great saddle, but because the new owners are accommodating
> and a pleasure to work with despite the fact that they had no legal
> obligation to accommodate you.  To ask, in essence, if there is some
> way to come to an amicable arrangement, and to ask politely, I might add.
> 
> > I have also spoken with an investment group in AK (where the
> > "factory" is) and essentially was told the same thing.  Not a lot to
> > do and those of us with saddle money out are small fish.  This guy's
> > firm stands to lose millions apparently and they are higher on the
> > food chain.
> 
> Indeed, you are unlikely to generate much sympathy being out a couple
> of thousand dollars when there is somebody else who is out millions.
> 
> > There is an interested buyer for the company currently
> > but a new owner is not bound to honour old obligations.  We can
> > only HOPE  they might.
> 
> And there is more likely to be an interested buyer if the company
> has not been maligned and bad mouthed.  And you would be more
> likely to get a new owner to honor old obligations that they are
> not bound to honor by being understanding and appreciative,
> recognizing that the new owners aren't the ones who took
> your money and didn't deliver a saddle.
> 
> > The whole situation makes me mad and
> > disgusted beyond words.
> 
> Which I can fully understand, and suggest that you do what you
> suggest other people do...HOWL at the MOON.  But when dealing
> with everybody else, _I_ recommend not howling, but rather
> being understanding and conciliatory of a bad situation.  That
> way, other people are more willing to be understanding and
> conciliatory of your own woes.
> 
> 
> 
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